Her Late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II

Debate between Lord Kakkar and Lord Wakeham

Friday 9th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wakeham (Con)]

My Lords, I have only recently come out of hospital, so I hope I can hang on to my stick and keep straight. I particularly wanted to come to this debate, not to say anything very remarkable but to listen to the speeches. The standard of the speeches that I have heard is as high as any that I have heard in this House over many years.

I think I am the Leader of the House of Lords from the longest ago—I was not Leader of the House of Lords the longest, but it is longer ago that I was Leader—and I have very much enjoyed what I have heard today. I will not go into my share of reminiscences. Listening to the debate, I wanted to say just one thing, which I think has not been sufficiently emphasised. Many of us who have been Ministers in the Government have been the slaves of their red boxes for years. I do not know whether it was for 10 or 15 years that I had to deal with my red boxes. I cannot imagine how I would have dealt with them for 70 years, but it was 70 years for which she did that.

A lot of what she succeeded in doing in her life was because she was so well prepared for every event. She was not only well prepared; she knew how to put that across in a way that did not reveal that she might have views of her own. Importantly, she put things across in an impartial way. In the excellent debate that we have had, the thing that I thought had not been emphasised enough was just what a lot of hard work she had to put up with over 70 years.

[Lord Kakkar (CB)]

My Lords, at this saddest of times I join other noble Lords in sending sincere condolences to His Majesty the King and members of the Royal Family. This has been a very moving day because of the remarkable tributes paid by so many noble Lords. They were deeply emotional, reminding us all of the very real loss that our nation has experienced. Although a very strong nation, it will regrettably find it very difficult to come to terms with that for some time to come.

So much has been said about Her late Majesty but I should like to make two observations, one professional and one personal. Her late Majesty was patron of so many medical organisations—medical royal colleges, hospitals and other organisations—and the Queen’s example and her values inspired the professions hugely, as we heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins. That inspiration was vital at many times, particularly so during the Covid-19 pandemic. The Queen was, from the very beginning of her reign, patron of the King’s Fund, and we in the fund were deeply privileged to enjoy that patronage, which had a tremendous impact on the work of the fund over 70 years. Of course, during that period things have changed tremendously: life expectancy has increased and the way that medicine and healthcare are delivered has changed substantially.

The fund was established in 1897 by the then Prince of Wales, later King Edward VII, to raise funds for the hospitals dealing with the poor in London. Its purpose has changed substantially over that period, but in 2008 the fund was privileged to receive its royal charter from Her Majesty, which continued the capacity for us to pursue the work that was so strongly supported. That deep commitment to the work of healthcare professionals was not only reflected in its support of organisations here in the United Kingdom but throughout the Commonwealth, and was vital in ensuring that the values that Her late Majesty so clearly expressed and practised could remain fundamental to the practice of medicine throughout the world.

The second observation I should like to make is much more personal. It reflects Her Majesty’s deep commitment to the Commonwealth and, through that deep commitment and example, the opportunity afforded to so many from Commonwealth countries to come to the United Kingdom. Among those subjects who came from another Commonwealth country to settle here in the United Kingdom were my parents in 1961. I remember, growing up in the 1960s and 1970s, how they were deeply inspired and moved by Her Majesty’s commitment to the Commonwealth and all its peoples, and indeed to those people who decided to come and settle here in the United Kingdom. It was a vital part of ensuring, during that important period in our national history, that subjects of all backgrounds had the capacity to make their contribution, to participate in the life of our country and, in the case of my parents, to contribute to the work of the National Health Service. It was a vital opportunity, afforded by a monarch who understood the importance of the sensitivity, kindness and example that would ensure the integration of those from all over the world in societies and communities across our country, providing the opportunity for them to make their contributions.

I remembered all this at a deeply moving moment in my own time: the day I had the privilege to kneel before Her Majesty and to swear my oath of allegiance on becoming a member of Her Majesty’s Most Honourable Privy Council. I was particularly nervous that day but, as noble Lords have indicated, any audience with Her Majesty was always attended by her determination to ensure that one was put at ease. Kneeling there, I was deeply moved because I understood that it was Her Majesty’s values, her example and the work that she had done over so many decades that provided the opportunity for my family to settle here in the United Kingdom and the remarkable occurrence of my kneeling before Her Majesty to swear that oath. The fine example and the values of service, duty and commitment, always shown with kindness and thoughtfulness, are very powerful qualities that will live in the hearts of every one of Her late Majesty’s subjects. God save the King.

Procedure of the House

Debate between Lord Kakkar and Lord Wakeham

Wednesday 24th April 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wakeham]

I will say a word or two because I was the Leader of the House when the noble Lord was the Leader of the Opposition. I listened to my noble friend putting forward a housemaid’s baby-type argument; we will have a little experiment and it will be all right. I also listened to the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell. I have no doubt that if he was in charge of all this, it would work very well whatever the rules because he is that sort of person and he would make sure that it did. However, I am still worried about the central proposition that a Back-Bench committee should be able to decide which Back-Bench topics should be debated. The committee will come under enormous pressure and a great deal of lobbying. Inevitably it will end up, in order to keep the peace, taking on the big issues and leaving some of the smaller issues to one side. That is what worries me. Of course I accept the argument that we have to have more topical debates, but I am not sure that a Members’ Back-Bench committee is the way to do it. I would prefer it if we found another way. Therefore, I will vote against the experiment.

[Lord Kakkar]

My Lords, perhaps I may ask the Leader whether any thought has been given to the objective criteria that will be applied to the experiment to determine finally whether it has been successful or not. There is a lot of talk about this being an experiment, but at the outset it is vital to determine how we are going to judge whether it has been successful when we come to re-evaluate it.