Brexit: Preparations

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Callanan

Monday 21st October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. I cannot believe that I am being lectured about sloganeering by the Liberal Democrats. I would repeat the slogan that they gave us on Brexit, but it would probably be unparliamentary language, so I had better not. We should indeed get Brexit done.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, is it correct that it would take up to 33 weeks—more than half a year—to organise properly another referendum?

[Lord Callanan]

It is extremely difficult to say. However, the noble Lord is well experienced in parliamentary matters. The previous referendum, I think I am correct in saying, took about seven or eight months in total to get through the various Houses and their procedures and to take place. That was with a Government with a majority and a manifesto commitment to do it, so we can draw our own conclusions as to how long it would take to get referendum legislation through when this Government will manifestly not introduce that legislation. There is clearly no majority in either House for it and no agreement on what the question should be, or the franchise or the rules governing it. Many Members who are much more experienced in the workings of the House of Commons than I am have estimated that it could take even longer than that.

Brexit: Preparations

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

We will abide by the law and of course we accept all court judgments.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, since we have this extra time, I ask my noble friend, in the midst of all this animosity, whether the United Kingdom is or is not, under international law and the 1993 treaty, as many legal authorities argue, still a member of the European Economic Area. If we were, that would obviously vastly ease the problem of deal or no deal and enable us to have an orderly transition and comply with all necessary aspects of the law.

[Lord Callanan]

My understanding is that when we leave the EU, we also leave the European Economic Area: we are members of that by virtue of our membership of the EU.

European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Callanan

Thursday 26th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I did not detect a question in the noble Baroness’s statement, but we of course respect the rule of law. We believe that we act with integrity and I believe that I act with integrity as a Minister. I will always seek to ensure that we act within the rule of law.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, is not the constructive question whether the Opposition will support a withdrawal agreement when it comes before the House later in October?

[Lord Callanan]

As always, my noble friend speaks with great wisdom on this matter. This might be a political point, but it seems to me that the Act was designed to undermine our negotiating position. We have seen that in the negotiations that we have pursued, and it makes getting a deal harder. I am sure that that was within the calculations of some of the people who wished to ensure that it was passed. However, we will seek to negotiate in good faith; we still believe that we should respect the result of the referendum. It would do immense damage to our democratic institutions in this country if we do not. We should leave the European Union and we want to leave with a deal.

EU: Law-making Process

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Callanan

Monday 1st July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

There may be some truth in that, but if I had any criticisms of the EU system—and I have a lot of them—I might suggest that the unnecessary complexity would be one of the reasons why people voted to leave.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, would it not be a good idea in future to promote more understanding of how the European Economic Area works, because that is where we are highly likely to end up?

[Lord Callanan]

I will not comment on the last part of my noble friend’s statement, but of course I think that knowledge of the internal or single market, the European Economic Area and free trade agreements is always useful for Members of Parliament, as well as for members of the public.

Brexit: Date of Exit

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Callanan

Thursday 14th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, speaking for any party at the moment is a bit tricky. But as Her Majesty’s Opposition have ruled out no deal—personally, I agree with them—and the only available deal, and given that we know that there is a requirement that if a delay is to be granted it has to be for a purpose, with a strategy or an aim, would it not be wonderful just to have an inkling of what Her Majesty’s Opposition are proposing for the future, so that we at least know what kind of support we are going to get?

[Lord Callanan]

My noble friend makes a very good point with the benefit of his experience. The Labour Party are fond of telling us what they are against. What they have not done is tell us what they are in favour of. Ultimately, the other place will need to decide what it is actually in favour of, rather than what it is against.

Brexit: Negotiations and No-deal Contingency Planning

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 4th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I do not think that the noble Baroness’s analysis is correct. The European Economic Area is an agreement between EFTA countries and EU member states, and our membership of it will lapse when we leave the European Union. In order to join the European Economic Area we would have to become a member of EFTA, we would require the agreement of the EFTA countries and we would then need the agreement of the European Union in order to continue in that membership. That presents a number of legal and practical difficulties—but I would be happy to write to the noble Baroness in more detail about how it might not work.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Does my noble friend feel that the point has been put sufficiently strongly to the Brussels establishment and the Commission that the Chequers plan is already a compromise and is a compromise of compromises? That does not seem to have penetrated, judging by some of the comments from the Brussels Commission. Does my noble friend also feel that the Brussels Commission understands that a great many of the fundamental principles to which it refers have already been modified throughout the European Union, particularly in relation to labour movement, frontier controls, airport entry controls and the movement of services where there is no single market? Have those points got over to the people we are dealing with in Brussels?

[Lord Callanan]

Of course we are dealing with a lot of different interlocutors as well as the official EU negotiating team, represented by Michel Barnier, and the Article 50 working group. We are also liaising with individual member states. It is fair to say that there is a variety of opinions. We think that we have set out a compromise. It was obtained at some difficult political cost, but it offers a way forward. A number of member states and individuals in the EU have commented that it offers a workable and viable way forward and they look forward to engaging on it. Of course, it is a negotiation. There have been various noises off, but we still await the official Commission response. Senior members of the task force have made it clear that they think it offers a viable discussion and way forward.

UK-EU Security Partnership

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Callanan

Thursday 17th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

Yes, I agree that we need to be transparent on these matters. As I said, procedures have now been put in place to avoid such a situation happening again. The paper should have been laid before Parliament, but it was not and I have apologised for that. It is important that we have a full debate about these matters. There have been extensive discussions in Parliament and I am sure there will be more in the future. Of course, these are proposals which we have laid out. I know that many noble Lords have called for us to be more up front and transparent about our negotiating positions and we are endeavouring to do that as far as possible. The noble Lord will have noticed that the Prime Minister has announced the forthcoming publication of a White Paper on the subject and I am sure we will have further discussions in Parliament on that. However, on the noble Lord’s central point, I agree that we should have been more transparent on this occasion.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, is not the answer to the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, simply this: yes they did. It is in the Printed Paper Office and all we have to do is pick it up and read it? Does my noble friend also accept that, while this is an excellent paper, which talks about security relationships in Europe of unprecedented breadth and depth—as the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, said—the same principles and approach should also be applied to our close friends in Asia, Africa, Latin America and, in particular, the Commonwealth, because most of the action will be there over the next 10 years?

[Lord Callanan]

My noble friend is correct that they are in the Library now but, to be fair, his essential point that we did not put them there before they were published—which we should have done—is correct. Of course, we want ongoing security and defence co-operation with our many friends across the world as well as our friends in the European Union.

Brexit: Logistics Industry

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 8th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The “how” is that we will look in detail, using our excellent teams of officials, at all the available options. We will announce in due course what the best solution is for the United Kingdom and then, of course, we will have to discuss those matters with our European partners.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, is it not worth remembering that most digital traffic does not go through ports or customs anyway so the entire customs union debate, which is quite separate, is completely irrelevant to this question of digital and knowledge product trade. What are relevant are all the regulations and licences, which govern the trade in digital services throughout the European Union, and where—even after 40 years of membership—we have not been very successful in making much progress. Is the real concern not a global one? Are not the real markets where growth is coming in the next 10 years predominantly—90%—outside the European Union, and should we not think in rather wider terms that this petty issue of digital services in Europe?

[Lord Callanan]

My Lords, my noble friend, with his long experience of these matters, makes an extremely good point. Digital products can of course cross the European frontier very easily and cross worldwide frontiers extremely easily. The issue of trying to unify regulations is on a worldwide basis and the EU is a shrinking market in the world.

Brexit: Irish Border

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 5th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, is there not some confusion here between regulatory alignment and regulatory recognition? Is not the latter principle one on which there is perfect freedom for the whole United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland, to make arrangements for outside trade in due course for continuing the smooth and reasonably frictionless low or non-border controls in Northern Ireland? What is the problem?

[Lord Callanan]

Of course, the wording is very important, but I am very clear that alignment is not the same as having no diversity.