Devolved Authorities: Expenditure outwith Competences

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Monday 5th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I do not entirely agree with the noble Lord, but he may be pleased to hear that I am going to Wales to give evidence on the new border arrangements this week.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, the area in which we seem to have come unstuck, particularly over what is devolved and what are reserved powers, is the changing scene of foreign policy. Does my noble friend agree that there might be a case for revisiting the devolution legislation, in a completely changed world, to understand, for instance, the role of the various Scottish offices in other capitals? Are they concerned with trade or are they involved in foreign policy? Do major visiting officials from other countries visit Scotland as a separate entity, with separate foreign policy considerations? This is a very muddled and confused area, and it is getting more so. Does she agree that we need to clear up some of these contradictions?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend. This is a live issue, because there was the example of a meeting between the Scottish First Minister and Turkish President Erdoğan with no FCDO official present. I regret that and think it contravenes the protocols, which are designed to ensure that a Minister within the UK lands is properly informed and is making the right points on such a sensitive area—and also reports back, so that we have a joined-up understanding of foreign affairs. Foreign affairs are a UK competence.

Civil Service: Digital Skills

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Monday 20th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I can tell my noble friend a lot about what we did at Tesco on this matter. We had a spaghetti junction of old technology and what we did—I am sure noble Lords will be interested in this—was bring in systems that were compatible with one another. We gradually got rid of the spaghetti junction of technology and moved to new technology across the board. It is about those sorts of principles. Alex Burghart, the very energetic Minister concerned, heads at ministerial level the Central Digital and Data Office. It is these sorts of issues that we are looking at, so as to make sure that the transformation to digital that we need is efficient, smooth and speedy, and does not cause lots of legacy problems. I think we all know of experiences in different government departments where these already exist.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, just to balance the argument on efficient digital government, we need to be quite careful, do we not, that we do not all end up, in communicating with officialdom, talking to artificial intelligence systems or to robots?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I share my noble friend’s concern. I will say that artificial intelligence and robotics are actually improving efficiency in some of the services that one uses, such as banking, so that we move through the telephone options and find a person, but they are absolutely no substitute, to my mind, for having proper customer care where that is needed. There is sometimes a risk that we can get exclusion and other problems if we go too far over the top. That is why I emphasised the importance of this new department and the ability it will have to devote more attention to these sorts of incredibly important issues. AI can be a plus but it can also be a risk. We really need to look internationally and do everything that we can.

Greenhouse Gas Emissions: Developed Countries

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Monday 7th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

The good news is that the Prime Minister is at COP 27 today. He has been speaking and will make announcements, one of which I have just mentioned. While I cannot go into the detail of what kind of negotiations will go on on loss and damage, we have announced funding of £5 million for the Santiago network as a demonstration of our commitment to this issue. The points the noble Baroness makes about the particular circumstances of Pakistan are interesting ones which I will take away.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

The Pakistan situation is clearly appalling. However, would my noble friend agree that at COP 27, rather than concentrating solely on reaffirming targets, which, frankly, may never be met, or loss and damage grants, which may never be decided, let alone paid, and while emissions worldwide continue to rise very rapidly, there is a much stronger case for focusing on innovative new world schemes for extracting carbon out of the atmosphere and absorbing it directly? Will she reassure us that the UK Government will look at these new schemes and take the lead where they can in a full and constructive way?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his constructive suggestion. I believe in the power of technology. The point he makes about carbon capture and storage is absolutely on the money. We have seen leaps forward which have helped us with tackling climate change on everything from electric vehicles to wind turbines, solar power, LED lighting, hydrogen and new nuclear. Carbon capture and storage are in the same category. Areas like these are where businesses can come together with Governments to innovate, drive things forward and then get them copied in lots of different countries around the world. Climate change is an international phenomenon; sadly, carbon and greenhouse gas emissions have no borders.

Hinkley Point C

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Thursday 15th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I will certainly look at what we can do about transparency relating to small nuclear reactors. It is something that, as a new energy team, we are in the process of looking at, as I have already said. The noble Lord, as always, makes a good point about the need for testing this idea.

I did not answer the point from the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on tidal lagoons. We will take a decision on the future role of tidal lagoons in the UK’s energy mix following the conclusions of an independent review being undertaken by Mr Hendry, the former MP.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Would my noble friend accept that this was an incredibly difficult decision and that there were huge risks whichever way the decision might have gone? Would she agree that the main risks of going ahead—although, as I said, there were huge risks in not going ahead—are not so much the Chinese security issue, which has received a lot of press, as the rocky financial state of EDF, which the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, rightly raised, and of its supplier, Areva; the untried design, which still has not been proven and still is not working; the possibility of further cost inflation in the construction; and the enormous delay? Having visited Flamanville, I have seen how extensive that is: it is six years behind time and three times over budget.

Of course, as the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, again said, there are the new technology possibilities coming along by the time this produces electric current, as well as the possibility of falling renewable costs and the present possibility of very low oil and gas prices for years ahead. When I launched a programme in 1979 of nine new reactors—only one, Sizewell B, was ever built —it was the weak oil price that completely undermined the economics of the situation. That is the problem we face again today. Would my noble friend accept that it might have been wiser, faced with this Hobson’s choice, to at least have gone at it more sequentially and built just one reactor the same size as Flamanville to start with, and then see how matters developed from there, working with the Chinese and the French, not involving huge compensation and delay? One at a time might just have been a wiser course.

Finally, can we have a careful examination of how this decision ever came about and how my noble friends in the Government were confronted with it, so we are not caught out a second time?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I very much agree with my noble friend that we should learn from our experiences. That is something I always try to ensure we do in any area I am involved with. That obviously includes this. The honest truth is that this has been a difficult decision. That is one of the reasons why it was delayed, although we ended up with a decision in September, which was the most recent scheduled date.

My noble friend asks why there will be two reactors instead of one. There are two answers there. There are economies of scale. We have the skills and capability. The second point is that the consortium, led by EDF, came forward with a proposal for two reactors allowing for all of that and bringing many benefits that were weighed against the difficulties. We have made some changes, particularly relating to security protections, but we believe this project represents value for money for 7% of supplies of electricity over 60 years, of a sort that is a secure and reliable baseload, as they call it in the industry.

Update on the UK Steel Industry

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Monday 11th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

On the question of money, I am glad to clarify that we are open to discussions on the level of support. I articulated earlier what we have been telling investors today. I am also glad to have the opportunity to set out what we have been doing about anti-dumping in Brussels. Thirty-seven anti-dumping measures have been taken—15 against China—and another nine areas are being looked at. As a result, as I said in the Statement, rebar imports from China have gone down by 99 percent, wire rod by 90 per cent and there has been a similar effect in other areas. The noble Lord is talking about tariff policy more broadly—the so-called lesser duty rule. In general—I have dealt with trade pretty well all my life—that rule gives the right balance between industry, industry users and, ultimately, consumers. There is a wish in some protectionist member states to use the opportunity to change that fundamental principle which ensures that users and consumers benefit as well industry. However, changing that rule could have ramifications in other areas, from candles to screws to shoes—there has been a lot of debate on anti-dumping of shoes. We need good anti-dumping measures. We are working with the Commission on those and trying to improve the logistics so that we can have more success with anti-dumping. Above all, we need to move with speed.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Further to the question posed by my noble friend Lord Lawson, is it still the case that German steel-making electricity costs are 40% below those in the United Kingdom? If that is the case, and if it arises from differences in climate change and carbon reduction policies, are we not obliged under Section 2(2) and (4) and Section 6(2) of the Climate Change Act to take account of that? In failing to make the necessary amendments to the Climate Change Act, are we not in breach of that Act? Should not action be taken to correct the situation urgently?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My noble friend is a great expert in this area and I hesitate to make assertions. It is clear that we have been moving latterly to change our approach to make sure that our climate change obligations are met and that we help the energy-intensive industries, especially steel, which is such a strategic industry, at the same time. I shall certainly look into the points that he has raised and perhaps talk to him further.

Tata Steel

Debate between Lord Howell of Guildford and Baroness Neville-Rolfe

Thursday 16th October 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My Lords, this announcement by Tata, which the Secretary of State in the other place has discussed, and on which we have had discussions with officials, relates entirely to the Long Products division in Scunthorpe and other areas.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

To what extent does my noble friend feel that this whole saga is related to the very high energy costs here and throughout the rest of Europe, which are clearly driving some industries away despite the Government having made efforts to meter the costs of a very energy-intensive industry? What ideas should the Government be developing to prevent this situation occurring again and again?

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My noble friend is right to mention that background but there is some good news in this area. As I said, we are introducing a £7 billion package, part of which is already paying out compensation for additional costs in the energy-intensive industries, including steel.

I should also respond to the point that was made about cheap imports and dumping. That is something that we discuss with our EU counterparts. Obviously, it is mainly a matter for the EU but we are well aware of the importance of keeping an eye on it.