Asylum: UK-Rwanda Agreement

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 22nd January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, presided with very great skill over this report on an extremely difficult set of issues, as he has described in the last few minutes.

Before I make an additional comment, I will observe that we are concerned with a small but dangerous and damaging part of a much wider picture. When I say “small”, I have in mind one estimate that suggests that there are about 60 million people in Africa, the Middle East and central Asia who, even now in the present situation, wake up each morning considering migrating, mostly heading for Europe. Indeed, there between 5 million and 6 million migrants already in Turkey—that is just a start.

We have to lay beside that the fact that 90% of the world’s territorial surface has no inhabitants at all. So what I am saying is that there is something badly out of balance with this entire scene and the adjustment of handling migration and refugee problems in the totally changed conditions of the 21st century. Nevertheless, the urgent problem remains for us of how to halt the appalling trade and tragedy of illegal immigrants coming by extremely dangerous means into the United Kingdom.

As the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, made clear, the report is not about the safety of Rwanda Bill, which comes before the House next week—and should, in my view, be agreed and passed as quickly as possible. But the report does include useful advice on signing the subsequent treaty, which is worth taking note of—I hope that the Government will take note—and which will assist in ensuring that the whole process works effectively and serves its various purposes.

Also, I am glad that the report is free of the rather patronising tone one hears in some comments about Rwanda and its judiciary and legal systems, as though they could not possibly have high enough standards. I can understand the Rwandan Government’s exasperation, and that of senior legal figures there, at the implication that their system somehow has to be reinforced, made over and renewed to bring it up to scratch so that it can be called “safe”. Despite a very dark past, Africa has changed radically—particularly Rwanda, which has changed most rapidly of all in the last few decades. We need to keep that in mind when making our judgments. People also forget that Rwanda is not only evolving into a modern state but is a signed-up member of the Commonwealth and its charter, which insists on full respect for the rule of law and human rights. So I hope that the House will find the first Motion useful.

The second Motion also rightly urges that the normal CRaG—Constitutional Reform and Governance Act—processes, for which the parliamentary scrutiny period appears to expire next week on 31 January, should be properly observed by Parliament. Surely that would be wise; I hope that it is not in question. That raises much broader questions, which the noble and learned Lord touched on, about the severe defects in our entire committee system for holding the Executive to account, despite all the excellent and noble work that the clerks undertake. Every other Parliament I know that seeks to run a democracy—I have visited very many, as have many other noble Lords—has a far stronger committee scrutiny power system for treaties and indeed for everything else than we have here. We must face the fact that we are hopelessly behind in the digital age in this area of scrutiny—but I accept that that is a debate for another day.

The last phrase in the second Motion about Parliament having to make a judgment—to which the noble and learned Lord also referred—about whether Rwanda and its legal system are “safe” is the bit that worries me most, and which I realise runs through the whole debate. I have to ask colleagues: what does “safe” mean? It is an entirely subjective concept and always will be. Is our own judicial system safe? I do not know. I am not sure that all our postmasters would agree about the safety of our judicial system now. No amount of elaborate monitoring, training, appeals body advisers and all the rest is going to convince those who do not want to be convinced that Rwanda is safe.

I hope that the first Take Note Motion put forward so eloquently by the noble and learned Lord will be agreed completely and that the second one is seen simply as a useful agenda, since I see the debate about safety never being conclusive except through practice and experience. We will have to wait, put it into place and see how it goes.

My final hope—probably unattainable—is that both major political parties will support this project with the basic unity and balance which is what the public long for from their politicians and media, in combination with an internationally collective all-out attack on the revolting smuggler parasites, thereby saving the lives of many sad and frightened people. This in turn would decisively assist thousands of other genuine asylum seekers and refugees who are fleeing for their lives from terror and oppression and who have arrived here by legal means in receiving the swift and sympathetic treatment that is in line with our nation’s traditional instincts. It will also give us a breathing space to work out together and with all our neighbours and allies how on earth best to cope with the vast coming wave of migration, which no national Government alone can begin to handle—but perhaps that is too much to hope for right now.

Sir Edward Heath: Operation Conifer

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Tuesday 24th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

As I said to other noble Lords, of course we all regret the fact that the damaging situation arose in the first place, I am sure. However, this is a matter for the local police and crime commissioner and, as recently as 2019, the then police and crime commissioner said that Operation Conifer was scrutinised by an independent review and found to have been “reasonable and proportionate”, and he remained satisfied then that this was still the case.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend is hearing the voice of the House. It is difficult to understand the reluctance of the Government to bring this matter to a clear closure. Now the police side has in some ways settled, here we have these foul-mouthed accusations from a totally unreliable source allowed to drift in the wind with no attempt to tidy up and bring closure to the whole situation. Is this not a stain on British justice? Is it not up to the Government now to take very firm action to follow the advice of my noble friend Lord Lexden, and indeed many others, and bring this matter to honest clarity, instead of leaving it in the ill-mannered way in which at present the debate stands?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

As I have said repeatedly, I of course understand my noble friend’s concerns. But the fact is that the Government are of the opinion that the original investigation has been scrutinised to a very high degree and that no further government action is therefore necessary.

Uganda: LGBT People

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Wednesday 5th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cashman (Lab)]

My Lords, I refer to my interests in the register and I welcome the response thus far from the Minister. However, the assurance I seek from—

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I am very glad—

[Noble Lords]

Lord Cashman!

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

Again, the noble Lord raises some very good points. He will not be surprised to know that I do not know the precise answers on the organisations funded by the FCDO, but I will take that back and look into it. I can confirm that the high commissioner continues to meet a wide range of stakeholders, across both the Government and elsewhere, to express the UK’s concerns. The subject of safe and legal routes will come up later, but I hear what the noble Lord said.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I am glad to have heard the previous question; I am sure that it should have had precedence over mine. I intended to add how glad I am that this situation is affecting Uganda-UK relations, and my noble friend the Minister has outlined some of the ways in which it is doing so. Would he not agree that it also affects Commonwealth relations? Is it not essential to ensure that the Commonwealth’s opinions on these matters are directed to put Uganda under pressure? That is whole point of being in the Commonwealth in the first place. Will he ensure that Marlborough House is also aware of this— I think that it is—and that it is putting pressure on Uganda, both behind and in front of the scenes, to mend its ways?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend. The UK continues to work with other Commonwealth member states and civil society partners to reform outdated laws of this type and to end discrimination and violence against LGBT+ people. We have discussed this situation with the Commonwealth Secretary-General. The UK also provides funds to support the promotion and protection of LGBT+ rights across the Commonwealth, and at the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in 2022, the UK announced more money to support organisations such as the Commonwealth Equality Network. My noble friend is right that Commonwealth relationships will be of extreme importance in this matter.

Former Chief Constables: Gross Misconduct

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 22nd May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness is aware, we have conducted a two-part review of PCCs. The second part is due to be enacted soon.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, behind all this is the question of Operation Conifer, in which the reputation of a former Prime Minister and statesman was deeply and horribly smeared by the lies of a convicted paedophile, whose views were described by the police as “credible”. Given the obvious misdemeanours, mistakes and mishandling of the whole case, operations within the police seem to have been incredibly slow. The noble Lord, Lord Lexden, has asked endless questions over the years and this issue has never been brought to a head. Is it therefore not time for the Government, while not interfering with police operations in detail, to endorse and set up a completely independent inquiry to bring this appalling libelling and slandering of a now-deceased Prime Minister to an end? It is totally out of accord with the normal standards of justice and fairness in this country.

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

Many noble Lords have raised similar, very good points in recent debates. I shared this opinion with my noble friend Lord Lexden when we met last week. Having said that, there have been four inquiries into this case and all concluded that there was nothing more to do. However, I heard my noble friend Lord Howell’s concerns and will reflect them back to the department.

Police Misconduct Cases

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, as I say, I am unable to comment on ongoing cases. I know that irritates the House and I apologise for doing so, but there are specific circumstances which make me unable to comment.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, it is now almost two and a half years since the Independent Office for Police Conduct found sufficient evidence for there to be a misconduct hearing. I see that the Government cannot intervene in police conduct itself but will they encourage the police to speed up the handling of these misconduct hearings, which have now drifted on for so long and so inadequately?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My noble friend makes an extremely good point. I certainly encourage them to speed this up. Having said that, this is a particular case. It is considered to be in the interests of justice for the legally qualified chair to go beyond the normal 100 days. Beyond that, I cannot go.

Banks: Forged Customer Signatures

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 16th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, it is not the banks which need to get a move on. As I said earlier, the decision has been communicated to some of the complainants, but the Treasury Select Committee, certain remaining complainants and other relevant parties are not yet aware of the outcome. We should expect all necessary persons to be notified in the appropriate manner; beyond that, it would be unwise of me to comment on operational matters.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, stronger regulation means taking stronger powers to the Executive, which means a stronger and bigger stream of statutory instruments and secondary legislation coming through this House. Will my noble friend encourage his colleagues in the Government to support moves by Parliament to get stronger resources and have the capacity to scrutinise and control this stream of legislation?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a very sensible point. However, fraud falls within the Financial Conduct Authority’s objective of reducing the risk of financial crime, which impacts its consumer protection objectives. Obviously, the FCA will not hesitate to take the appropriate action against firms which do not meet its standards.

National Security

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, the scope of this new task force is, of course, enormous, since nowadays almost every aspect of connection and influence is being weaponised, including education, culture and issues far outside the normal security scope and outside the range of intelligence and cyberattack. We are subject, in this country, every hour of the day, to a bombardment of fake news and distortion, penetrating every aspect of our society and clearly covering our own debates. They say that the best form of defence is attack. Can the Minister assure us that this task force will also look at ways of returning in kind some of the material that pours out, in particular from the CCP in China, attacking not just democracy but our form of democracy and claiming, rather ironically, that China’s form is more precise and more effective than ours? Can he assure us that we have a full intellectual force ready to challenge the arguments at their roots in order to refute the kind of poison that is daring to try to demoralise and undermine our society?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

I am pleased to be able to reassure my noble friend that I can. I am going to give a long answer, for which I hope the House will be forgiving, because this is important. In 2019, we established the defending democracy programme. It is a cross-government programme, with an overarching objective to safeguard elections and referendums related to democratic processes in the UK. It focuses on delivering four outcomes. Elections are secured through the protection of their physical personnel and cyber infrastructure; the safety of elected representatives, parliamentarians, voters, candidates, campaigners and poll workers is protected; the regulation of political campaigning must be robust; the impact of disinformation, misinformation and wider information operations is mitigated and minimised.

There is also, as part of that work, the DCMS Counter Disinformation Unit, which leads the operational and policy response for countering disinformation across HMG. That has included responding to acute information incidents such as the Ukrainian conflict, Covid-19 and general elections. When false narratives are identified, the CDU co-ordinates with departments across Whitehall to deploy the appropriate response. This could involve direct rebuttal on social media or awareness-raising campaigns to promote the facts. Obviously, I cannot go into—and I do not necessarily know—what other sorts of action we take overseas, but that is certainly what we are doing here, and it is fairly robust.

Mr Mike Veale

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 18th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, it is a matter for the legally qualified chair to convene a misconduct hearing. It is usually within 100 days but can be longer if the interests of justice will be served. Therefore, the LQC—the legally qualified chair—has obviously made a judgment on that. In terms of the issue of Leicester, that is a matter for the Leicester PCC.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, to be fair, some of us have had meetings with the Home Secretary, who is obviously concerned about this. One obviously understands that the Government cannot intervene in the internal conduct and affairs of the police, but surely there is something a bit odd here. As my noble friend Lord Lexden said, here is someone who is under investigation for gross misconduct. Surely, at a time such as this, they would be asked to stand aside until the matter is cleared up for them, rather than being promoted and given enhanced status inside the police service. Is there not a way of getting a message to the police authorities that this is appalling behaviour, which led to nonsensical accusations which proved to be based on lies, and demands a sensible handling of a kind which, at present, does not seem to be obvious?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I do not disagree with my noble friend that sensible handling is required. That is why I made the suggestion. The Government will not intervene in a matter with PCCs. I suggested to my noble friend and perhaps also suggest to my noble friend Lord Howell that there might be a delegation from noble Lords to go and see him.

Mike Veale: Police Conduct Report

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 7th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I endorse the comments of my noble friend Lord Lexden about the Minister’s work, which has been very valiant during the whole of this difficult case. I think it is generally agreed that Operations Conifer and Midland are now utterly discredited. One appreciates that the Government do not want to intervene in the present conduct inquiries, but can we at least be assured that they are constantly pointing out to the police administration, with which they cannot of course intervene, their expectation that there will be a full calling to account of those who made these absolutely disastrous misjudgments and caused so much unfair discredit to so many hard-working and public-serving people? Can we at least have that assurance so that there is some movement to restore confidence in our otherwise quite excellent police force?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

Certainly the current proceedings are evidence that things are at least being taken forward. I appreciate that many noble Lords will feel very disgruntled about this, but several layers of scrutiny have been afforded to both Operations Conifer and Midland. The whole proceedings have been well scrutinised, but I still appreciate the frustrations of the noble Lord and other noble Lords.

Independent Office for Police Conduct

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Thursday 8th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

As she announced last month, the Home Secretary is bringing forward the review of the IOPC in part due to some concerns about Midland. The review will consider the IOPC’s governance, accountability, efficiency and efficacy, and should ultimately lead to better outcomes not only for the organisation itself but for the public and the police. It is quite routine for arm’s-length bodies to be reviewed, and doing it now is timely.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the Home Secretary’s recent words that

“profound concerns exist about the handling of the IOPC’s investigation into Operation Midland”,—[Official Report, Commons, 15/6/21; col. 128.]

to which I am sure she would wish to add Operation Conifer, as my noble friend Lord Hunt rightly emphasised. Now that the next review of the IOPC is to be brought forward, can we be told when it is going to happen? Does my noble friend share the hopes of many of us, in this House and elsewhere, that it will shed further light on the appalling blunders of the past in this area and who was and still is responsible for them?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I reassure my noble friend that the review will be expedited, as soon as possible. There will of course be an independent reviewer, and I will keep noble Lords and the House updated as to the timelines of the review.