European Council

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Lord Grocott

Monday 10th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I understand the points made by my noble friend about the composition of the contact group. When my right honourable friend the Prime Minister talked to President Putin yesterday, he made the point that the precise format and composition of those talks is slightly less important than getting them going. I am not able to give a precise answer as to who the participants might be because that would clearly be part of any negotiation and discussion that would need to take place. However, the points made by my noble friend will clearly be taken on board and listened to by the Foreign Office as we go forward, as will her other point about the transitional agreement and so on. At the moment, all these areas are in a state of flux, so I am clearly not able to answer with the kind of precision that my noble friend or others might request. However, at the moment our priority is certainly to seek to bring about a de-escalation. The best way of doing that, whatever its precise form, is to find a way of the Russians and Ukrainians talking directly to each other.

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords, of course it is right that the Government should say that we cannot have constitutional change, and certainly not territorial change in the boundaries of any country, under duress or the threat of force. However, I would like some clarification on the Government’s position in respect of a referendum in Crimea. Again, the Government are quite right to say that the logistics of any referendum make it impossible or unrealistic for it to take place within a week or so. However, if it becomes the settled view of the people of Crimea or indeed any other country that the present constitutional arrangements are not to their liking, then surely it cannot be the Government’s permanent position that we will, as a matter of principle, say that we will reject that in all circumstances and at any cost.

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

Whatever form a referendum might take, it needs to be consistent with what is set out in the constitution of Ukraine itself. The simple point about the proposals for the referendum in Crimea is that it is utterly inconsistent with the Ukrainian constitution, which should control it—apart from some of the other practical points to which the noble Lord has already referred, including that when OSCE monitors and others have turned up to try to see the situation, they have been turned back at gunpoint.

NHS: General Practitioners

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Lord Grocott

Wednesday 26th February 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords—

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford) (Con)]

My Lords, it is the turn of the Labour Party.

[Lord Grocott]

As the Minister was tempted, perhaps a little unwisely, to go down memory lane by way of explaining the current circumstances in the health service, perhaps I could tempt him to go a little further back down it by reminding him that it was the Labour Party which built the National Health Service in the teeth of Tory opposition. If you want to have the health service maintained in future, the secret is to get a Labour Government.

Israel and Palestine

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Lord Grocott

Tuesday 5th November 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Grocott]

I have started. There is plenty of time.

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford) (Con)]

There is plenty of time. If we can go to the Cross Benches then we will come to the noble Lord, Lord Grocott.

Energy: Long-term Supply

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Lord Grocott

Thursday 17th October 2013 Lords Chamber

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford) (Con)]

My Lords, forgive me. It is Labour’s turn for a question.

[Lord Grocott]

Given that the Prime Minister and the Chancellor have frequently expressed concern about the influence of the left and, as they describe it, “Marxist policies” in Britain, what would be their attitude of the involvement of a communist country in our energy supply industry?

House of Lords: Oral Questions

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Lord Grocott

Thursday 21st March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Grocott]

Does the Leader subscribe to the basic rule of Oral Questions that you should never ask a question unless you know the answer?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

That is a very good principle in life, my Lords.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Lord Grocott

Thursday 31st January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I am sure that the Chairman of Committees will have heard that point. More generally on this debate, my noble friend says that he does not want to delay the House. We will be discussing it next week and I am sure that there will be plenty of opportunity to consider this and all the other points that noble Lords want to raise then.

[Lord Grocott]

My Lords, would we not have a more informed debate if a Government Minister was able to answer a question that I and, I am sure, others have repeatedly put in Written Questions and elsewhere: what precisely in terms of numbers is the coalition commitment to establishing the party strengths in this House on the basis of the last general result? What does that mean in terms of numbers for each of the three parties? Although the Leader of the House dealt with the question put by the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, very effectively in parliamentary terms, he did not actually answer the question, which was a valid one. If the Government are committed to their repeatedly stated objective of reflecting the last election results, surely we are entitled to know precisely in numbers, including the total number, what that would occasion. If we do not know the numbers, it is very difficult to have an informed debate.

Schools: Grammar Schools

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Lord Grocott

Monday 16th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I agree with my noble friend. The point of what we are trying to do is to make sure that there is a decent education system that can stretch and provide a good education for children of all abilities and aptitudes, including the bright and academically gifted. As it does, we are trying to increase the provision of university technical colleges and studio schools for children who are of a different bent.

[Lord Grocott]

Would not the Minister acknowledge that these really were the bad old days? A decision was made whether children, at the age of 11, should go into a form of education that would in most cases determine their life chances thereafter—their income, capacity to join professions and a range of other possibilities? The other not half but three-quarters of children, or in some cases even 90 per cent—the percentage varied almost randomly according to which local authority area you happened to live in—were told, at age 11, “This is how the rest of your life will operate. We’ve made a judgment. You’re not as able as the rest, and therefore your life chances will be diminished”. We do not want a return to those bad, bad old days.

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, the point I was trying to make is that we want a system that provides opportunities for children irrespective of their background, gives them the chance to get on, whatever their age and stage, and gives them repeated chances to get on. To that extent I agree with the thrust of what the noble Lord said. For some that will be an academic route; for some it will be a technical route; for some it will be a vocational route. We want to move away from the idea of one size fitting all and have a more diverse system that responds to what children need.