House of Lords: Membership

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Thursday 28th February 2013 Lords Chamber

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford)]

My Lords, I think that we have a good debate and that the outlines of the issues that the House will want to consider are already clear. The points that have been made very forcefully by a number of noble Lords have been well made; obviously I have heard everything that has been said. Although I recognise that I am new to this job, one issue on which I can be in little doubt about the opinions of this House is that which we have been debating today. Noble Lords have already been extremely generous—I might say unstinting—with the advice they have given me at every possible opportunity. I am glad to say that I have had a chance to discuss these issues with many noble Lords who have already spoken today and I will continue to do so in future, because I think that that is the right way to take the matter forward.

Coming new to the subject, I cannot have the great expertise and history that many noble Lords have on this matter. We have seen it again demonstrated by the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, and my noble friend Lord Tyler. These issues go back a long time. However, I do at least bring a fresh pair of eyes to some of these issues. Given that the underlying issue to which all noble Lords have referred is the size of the House, I thought that I should start by going back to look at the figures to see by how much the House has grown. This is what I found.

The House that Tony Blair inherited on taking office in 1997 had 1,067 Peers eligible to vote. Of course, that was before the removal of most of the hereditary Peers following the 1999 reform. The House that Gordon Brown inherited on taking office 10 years later in 2007 was smaller: there were 738 peers eligible to vote. As of this week, there are 761 Members of this House eligible to vote; that is 23 more than in 2007. We have had some discussion about the proportion and size of the number who have been introduced, so I looked at the numbers for the Conservative, Liberal Democrat, Labour and Cross-Bench Peers in particular. In 2007, 698 Members sat on those Benches and were eligible to vote. I accept that the equivalent figure today is higher: today it is 704, which is six more than in 2007. Those figures come from the House of Lords Library note of 27 June 2012; for this week’s figures, I consulted the online House of Lords registry.

Given that the overall number of Peers eligible to vote is not so different from five or six years ago, that brings me naturally to the important question raised by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, about the exercise of restraint in new appointments to the House, which is referred to both in his amendment and in my noble friend Lord Steel’s Motion.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

My Lords, would the noble Lord be kind enough to give us the details of the average attendances from 1997?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I am coming on to talking about attendance and participation, which I recognise as an important issue. As far as the exercise of restraint is concerned, the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, refers to the Leader’s Group recommendation on the creation of new Members of this House. That read:

“Whilst we cannot recommend that there should be a moratorium on new appointments to the House—since, while the purpose of the House is to provide expertise, we must ensure that that expertise is refreshed and kept up to date”—

a point, I think, on which all noble Lords agree—

“we do urge that restraint should be exercised by all concerned in the recommendation of new appointments the House, until such time as debate over the size of membership is conclusively determined”.

I would argue that this recommendation has been followed and that the Prime Minister has indeed shown restraint. Since the well publicised lists of May and November 2010, a total of eight new peers have been created, six of them on the Cross Benches; 42 life peers have, sadly, died. I suggest, therefore, that the Prime Minister’s record is consistent with the recommendation from the Leader’s Group, both in terms of exercising restraint and in ensuring that expertise is refreshed and kept up to date.

I now come to the point about which I was asked. The real issue is not so much the absolute number of those entitled to vote but attendance. Surely we all agree that attendance and participation are good things that we ought to encourage. That is one of the reasons why I am extremely keen, as a new Leader, to try to find new ways to help a wider range of Members to play a greater role in this House. That is why, as an early priority, I shortly plan to put proposals to the Procedure Committee that will provide more time and opportunities for Back-Bench Members to lead debates. My intention is to build on the work of my noble friend Lord Strathclyde, who, with the support of the Liaison Committee and the House, initiated a modest expansion in our Select Committee activity to include more pre-legislative and post-legislative scrutiny as well as a greater emphasis on single-session committees. I am keen to do that in order to ensure that a wider range of Members have the opportunity to serve on our Select Committees.

Noble Lords have raised the matter of Question Time. I welcome the fact that the Procedure Committee is due to come forward with some revised proposals on how we might make it easier for a wider range of Members to table Oral Questions. There is also the question of how we might encourage more Members to come in on supplementary questions and broaden participation. I am acutely conscious of how crowded the Chamber is during Question Time, just as it is at PMQs in another place. When you spend as much time as I now have the pleasure to do in your Lordships’ House, it is clear that, at other times of the day, this House is not as crowded as it is during Question Time.

As well as talking about the need for restraint, the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, reiterated the support of this House for the proposals in the Bill introduced by my noble friend Lord Steel of Aikwood. Indeed, the House has already made its position clear. We passed the Bill without a Division and sent it to the other place last summer. It contains measures which my noble friend Lord Steel described as “housekeeping” and for which it is clear that there is widespread support in this House. I know that my noble friend is keen that the Government should take the Bill forward. As he said, he made his case directly to the Deputy Prime Minister earlier this week; he was the right person to talk to, as he is the Cabinet Minister responsible for this matter. Despite that, the Government’s position remains that we do not wish to facilitate the passage of the Bill. I understand that the Deputy Prime Minister made clear why that is the case. As my noble friend Lord Tyler said, it is because the House of Commons voted overwhelmingly last year in favour of an elected House of Lords. With that in mind, no Government could credibly support a package of measures that could be perceived as anointing an all-appointed House.

Young People: Parenthood

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Wednesday 27th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I do not know how many schools offer that and I do not know how easy it would be to find out, but I will certainly ask the question. I am aware of how much work is being done in primary and secondary schools and the way in which many schools, particularly primary schools, are finding ways of bringing parents into schools and educating them at the same time as the children. I agree with him on the importance of schools developing ways of encouraging that.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

My Lords, given the changes in the benefits regime and the ideas being floated over the past few days about further changes that will affect in particular young people and their lifestyles, and given what the Minister has already said about not moving on parenting advice, will he say whether there is any intention to draw these changes to the attention of young people? Will he also say whether some thought might be given to giving some well placed advice on servicing tax liabilities and responsibilities at some point, too?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, it seems to me that all those matters could be considered and taught within the existing PSHE framework in schools.

Youth Sport Trust

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Wednesday 8th December 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I agree with the thrust of the point made by my noble friend about the need to make sure that sport is given due weight. Part of what we need to look at in our overall considerations is the review of the national curriculum, to make sure that the emphasis that PE is given—in particular the competitive aspects of PE—is properly reflected. Our contention, as the noble Lord, Lord Kinnock, suggested, is that we are trying to devolve responsibility and funds to heads of schools across the board to make those decisions. We expect that heads will want to continue to make sure that sport is given due and proper weight.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

Is it not true—

[Baroness Billingham]

I apologise. Members of this House will remember that when the announcement was made about the withdrawal of funding, there was a firestorm of fury across the whole sporting family. It came from schools, colleges, elite athletes and people supporting the legacy of the Olympics. This outrage was no surprise. I think that No. 10 was somewhat taken by surprise, to the extent that it issued a statement saying that it would rethink this. At today's PMQs, the Prime Minister said that there would be no rethink. My question to the Minister is: will you have a rethink or will you rush headlong into the devastation of sport for a whole generation and many years to come?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

The situation is that, in the light of the debate around sport following our announcement, my department and the Department for Culture, Media and Sport are considering how best to ensure that we have a proper legacy for the Olympic and Paralympic Games. In due course, we will come forward to set out more detail.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

As a mere Back-Bencher, perhaps I may ask the noble Lord whether it is true that this function was previously devolved to headmasters. They had the responsibility for ensuring that there was competitive sport. However, in practice it did not work, which is why we had to establish the bodies that we have been speaking about. If they are to be abolished, what will the Government put in place to make sure that we do not slip back to what we had previously?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

As I said in my previous reply, work is going on to set out our thoughts going forward. It is also true that when the system with the Youth Sport Trust and the school sport partnerships was set up, a former Labour Sports Minister said that the expectation had always been that if it worked well—and after £2.4 billion of expenditure, there are good examples of where obviously it has worked—it would be embedded in the system, and therefore it would be more appropriate for head teachers to take that responsibility.

Schools: Pupil Premium

Debate between Lord Hill of Oareford and Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Monday 6th December 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

As usual, my noble friend is a few steps ahead of me. We will need to address how we police that, and to reflect on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, as well. We are not yet even at the point of announcing the premium so I am afraid that I cannot give my noble friend a completely satisfactory answer about what we will do in a year’s time.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

But did not the noble Baroness put forward a perfectly legitimate solution to the problem? In many of the areas of localism, which many of us support, there will be people who do not implement what the Government wish, and they will not be accountable in the way that one would expect. Should we therefore not be moving towards ensuring more entitlement to the basic requirement, such as making the pupil premium an entitlement?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, obviously I heard the point made by my noble friend and underlined by the noble Lord. We need to reflect on these points and will announce before Christmas how we will go forward on the pupil premium, what the eligibility criteria will be, and how it will operate.