Police (Surrey)

Debate between Lord Herbert of South Downs and Paul Beresford

Tuesday 3rd July 2012 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Nick Herbert)]

Welcome to the Chair, Mr Bone. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) on his forceful speech and on securing the debate and the support of his colleagues. I take Members who represent Surrey constituencies seriously when they hunt in a pack, as they have done today, and will pay the closest attention to what they say.

I join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to the Surrey force, which is ably led by its new chief constable. It emerged with a good review, from the report issued yesterday by Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary, of how it is dealing with the inevitable reductions in spending that the Government have asked police forces to make. The review said that the force has a good history of bringing down costs and changing how services are delivered. It began to transform how it operates in 2009, before the 2010 comprehensive spending review. As a result, it is in a good position to achieve its savings target by 2015.

The force has plans in place that, if delivered, will achieve 100% of the £27 million-worth of savings that it is required to make between 2011 and 2015. In making those savings, and in contrast to every other force, Surrey plans to increase the number of police officers by 50—that is a 3% increase compared with other forces, which are losing officers. It is the only force in the country able to do that over the spending review period. Within that total, the force is reducing the number of officers in more senior ranks by not replacing retiring managers, and increasing the number of constables by up to 200. Surrey also plans to increase the number of police community support officers by 50, while reducing the number of police staff by some 8%.

That all means that, by 2015, 80% of Surrey’s work force will be on the front line, which is a considerably higher proportion than most other forces, where the average is about two thirds. In common with other forces, Surrey is increasing the proportion of its police officers on the front line from 78% to 90%, which is exactly what I think the public want to see.

On outcomes, crime is still decreasing in Surrey, although at a slightly lower rate than in England and Wales as a whole. It is important that the force maintains its focus in adapting to the changed spending environment and continues to deliver a high-quality service to the public and to reduce crime, which is, of course, the most important outcome for members of the public. My hon. Friend drew attention to the particular circumstances of Surrey’s funding and set out the ways in which he believes Surrey is disadvantaged. First, he mentioned that Surrey has raised a much higher proportion of its funding from its local precept than other forces; indeed, I think it raises more of its money from the local precept than any other force in England and Wales. There is a greater call on local taxpayers than in other parts of the country, but equally, Surrey has been relatively protected from the reduction in central Government funding. The forces that raise less money from their precept have suffered a proportionately greater reduction in funding than those that raised more, such as Surrey. That is merely a statement of the fact.

Let me elaborate. By 2012-13, the current financial year, Surrey was raising nearly half its overall funding from the precept. When we were allocating the funding for all forces in England and Wales at the beginning of the spending review period, a question arose. Since other forces were going to be affected to a greater extent by not raising more money from the local precept, should they have a lower reduction in their spending than forces such as Surrey? It was argued, including in this Chamber, by various hon. Members whose constituencies are policed by the forces concerned, that it would be wrong to penalise them when forces such as Surrey were more able to withstand the reduction in central funding.

The Government took the view that it was not right in principle to penalise local taxpayers for the fact that they were already contributing more for their local policing service. At the time, forces, police authorities and chief constables were expecting a 20% reduction in central Government funding. We had not indicated or confirmed that it would be an even 20% reduction for each force, so it was open to us to adjust the amount according to the money that was raised through the precept. Through the damping mechanism, we decided that the equitable solution, taking all factors into account, was to do what they expected us to do, which was to use the damping mechanism to achieve an even reduction in funding for all forces, including Surrey. From that point of view, I do not believe that Surrey was disadvantaged by our decision.

[Sir Paul Beresford]

The Minister will be aware that after Labour entered government in 1997, the tendency to shift money away from the south and south-east was to such a degree that even the Audit Commission commented on it. That included local government, schools, the national health service and the police. His argument is based on a funding formula that we want reviewed because it is flawed. We feel that we need a review. The damping stays, and after the review, he will have to have another form of damping, because he will have the arguments much the same way, but at least Surrey will be getting what we anticipate to be a fair share of the cake.

[Nick Herbert]

I hear what my hon. Friend says, but I disagree that the formula is not fit for purpose. It allocates funding according to need. The Government’s position is that we wish to move towards a full application of the formula. The question is not whether we do that, but at what rate and how. It would have been a great deal easier for the previous Government to move to full application of the formula and away from the distorting effects of damping when there were increases in funding for all forces. It is a great deal harder to do that when funding for forces is declining. Had we done so, some forces that benefit from damping, including Surrey—to the extent of an additional £3.2 million in the current financial year, as my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton pointed out—would have seen a greater reduction in central Government funding.

For the reasons that I have set out, we felt that the equitable approach was not to move away from damping towards full application of the formula in the first two years of the spending review. However, we reserved our position in relation to years three and four. I have just consulted police authorities about what we should do regarding damping in those years. That consultation has just closed, and we will analyse the responses carefully. I will not prejudge our decision, but the points expressed by my hon. Friends the Members for Esher and Walton and for Mole Valley (Sir Paul Beresford) are well made.