Companies: Parental Leave Practices

Debate between Lord Henley and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

Wednesday 10th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, the noble Baroness makes a very fair point. The purpose of requiring employers to publish parental leave and pay policies is so that applicants can make an informed decision about whether to combine a job with caring for their families. At present, as she will be aware, applicants must ask prospective employers for details of parental leave and pay policies. Many people are reluctant to do this, which is why my right honourable friend made that announcement and why we are working towards this. As I said, we hope to publish the consultation soon.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lords, according to figures from the department for business for last year, some 285,000 couples are eligible every year for shared parental leave. However, the department’s figures outline that the take-up could be as low as 2%. Can the Minister outline his understanding of why there is such a low take-up and, probably more importantly, what the Government and his department will do to deal with it?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, again it is fair to say that the noble Lord is right to highlight that there has been a low take-up of shared parental leave. We will want to look at this to make sure that people can benefit from it. We will work on that, but I give him an assurance that that is what the department is doing.

Rural Post Offices

Debate between Lord Henley and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

Tuesday 9th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, my noble friend is right to draw attention to the banking framework agreement. We are grateful for the work that the Post Office and the banks have done together. Post Office Ltd handled over 128 million banking transactions on behalf of the high street banks; that represents growth of around 12% year on year. The implications of the new framework agreement with the National Federation of SubPostmasters was announced at its conference and has led, in some cases, to a doubling or even trebling of the fees that agents can receive from the banks.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lords, the Post Office recently announced that it is closing and franchising a further 74 Crown post offices, leaving up to 700 jobs at risk. This means that, since 2013, 224 Crown offices have been shut, representing a 60% cut in the Crown network. Will the Government finally intervene and end the closure of Crown post offices by introducing a new condition in the Post Office’s funding agreement?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, again, the important point is that our post office network is now making a profit and is broadly stable. The Question is about rural sub-post offices, but the noble Lord referred to Crown post offices: there will be occasions when some of those have to be closed. It is coverage that is important; I assure the noble Lord that some 93% of the population live within one mile of their nearest post office and almost 99% of the rural population within three miles of one.

Music Licensing

Debate between Lord Henley and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

Thursday 13th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes a very useful contribution. I stress that this is about ensuring that those artists, performers and others receive the appropriate reward for their work.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure this House will agree that artists, especially the less well-known ones, should be paid fairly if their music is played in public. What, if any, are the expected consequences following the delay in implementing the new specially featured entertainment tariff—SFE—which was meant to be implemented on 1 July? Does he know when the subsequent independent review by the Copyright Tribunal will be completed?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I am not going to comment on a case that is about to be before the Copyright Tribunal; that would not be right or proper. Nor can I help the noble Lord on the first part of his question. As I made clear earlier, it is important that these collective management organisations—CMOs—provide the best possible service for their members and negotiate in a proper and fair way with the hospitality organisations that want to use their music.

Climate Emergency

Debate between Lord Henley and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

Tuesday 7th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I did not say that we have nothing to worry about. I and my right honourable friend the Secretary of State have made it clear, including in the debate we had last week in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, that there is something to worry about. We are certainly worried about climate change, but we are also of the view that we have taken considerable action in this country; we will take further action, both in this country and internationally, for the benefit of the whole planet. We will also offer leadership, internationally, as a result of actions both international and national.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lords, on the Minister’s final point, it is vital that the Government take all necessary steps to avoid the impending climate catastrophe. This includes, as he touched on, using powers to lobby our allies to cut emissions. Can he explain to the House what steps, if any, Her Majesty’s Government are taking to persuade President Trump’s Administration to return to the Paris agreement and meet their obligations to cut pollution?

Employment Rights (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2019

Debate between Lord Henley and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

Thursday 28th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introduction to these SIs. Many of the points that I intended to make have already been made by the noble Baronesses, Lady Burt and Lady Gardner, and my noble friends Lady Donaghy, Lady Drake and Lord Monks. The House will be pleased to hear that I shall therefore not repeat everything that has been said as well as the many questions that have been asked. However, there are a couple of issues that I want to highlight and reinforce, and a couple of questions I want to ask.

The greatest concern on this side of the House is that these regulations do not do justice to the, admittedly limited, Taylor report. When first published, my honourable friends in the other place warned that its recommendations did not go far enough, yet it seems that the Government are failing to meet even those basic suggestions.

There is also the issue of the considerable delay. After years of consultation and press releases, what has eventually been published amounts only to some minor tweaks and limited changes to employment laws. Ultimately, this is only further evidence of the Government’s failure to address the growing inequality in the quality of work, and increasing insecurity and low pay, across the UK. It will soon be three years since the review was first commissioned. Before I move on to the specific instruments at hand, can the Minister confirm that all 53 of its recommendations will finally be implemented by that milestone?

The crux of the Employment Rights (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2019 is to ensure that workers, rather than employees, are given a written statement of certain information relating to their position. The fact that a written statement will be given is welcome, but it is disappointing that that information is contained in separate negatives. Why has it been decided that this information would not be in this instrument? It is also questionable what a statement will achieve without the necessary routes to challenge the information given in the document. Regarding that, what exact mechanisms will exist for workers to challenge the information given in the statements, if they had understood the particulars to be different?

My noble friend Lord Monks has already touched on information and consultation. I support his points on that.

The Agency Workers (Amendment) Regulations 2019 seek to amend the loophole in the regulations which has meant that agency workers employed on permanent contracts with recruitment agencies can miss out on the right to equal pay, in return for a promise of pay when the agency cannot find them work. As the House has heard, these are known as payments between assignment contracts, or Swedish derogation contracts. The removal of the Swedish derogation is welcomed by this side of the House. The TUC has previously found that, as a result of this loophole, workers have been earning up to £4 an hour less than directly employed staff, even though they may carry out exactly the same work. Unfortunately, the changes will not come into force until 6 April 2020. Why will workers have to wait another year before they receive equal pay?

As a result of these regulations, there will be a significant burden on the EAS to enforce the changes. Can the Minister confirm that the inspectorate will be fully equipped to ensure that all businesses which exploit agency workers will be taken to task?

As my noble friend Lord Monks said, there is also the issue of other loopholes in the legislation, which could lead to the original purpose of the regulations being undermined. Have the Government considered fully removing the 12-week qualifying period, as that would help remove one of them?

Finally, I come to the conduct of employment agencies regulations. In a similar vein to the other regulations, this SI sets out new provisions in the conduct regulations, meaning that agency workers will be entitled to further key information about their assignments. It ensures that employment agencies provide agency workers with a key information document before signing the terms of employment. Any attempt to address issues of pay confusion are, and will be, welcomed, but it is unclear whether this new document will be in the most appropriate format. Will guidance be given to businesses on how the document should be formatted? In common with the other regulations debated today, it is important that provisions of enforcement have been considered. Unless enforcement is properly resourced, even the limited proposals announced will amount to very little. How does the Minister envisage enforcement taking place?

In conclusion, the limited regulations debated today are welcome and have qualified support, as my noble friend Lord Monks said. The issues that have been raised show that the problems lie largely with the fact that they are too timid. If the Government were serious about improving the lives of workers, they would be implementing a far more transformative set of policies rather than these tweaks, especially in the light of the recent prime ministerial statement attempting to woo the trade unions and Labour MPs to support her deal on Brexit. Are her offers of strengthening workers’ rights now gone, with her threat to resign? If not, how do the Prime Minister’s interventions fit with today’s SIs?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken for their generally fairly positive response to the regulations. I will start by correcting myself, and trying to assist the noble Baroness, Lady Donaghy, who accused me of poetic licence in describing these as the most significant change in 20 years. I must make clear that I was not saying that these regulations were, in themselves, the most significant change; it was our Good Work Plan that was. I offer a small correction to her and say 19 years and 360 days, to allow her her 20th anniversary of the minimum wage, which the coalition Government and this one have continued. I think all parties agree that the national minimum wage, and the national living wage introduced by the Conservative Government, have made a great difference. The Taylor report was commissioned by this Government, and my right honourable friend came up with the Good Work Plan after it. The noble Baroness will be familiar with it; she will have gone through all the recommendations and noticed the large number for which the response is “Accept, accept, accept”, or “We will consult”, or “We will do this or that”. We have a good record and I will amend the 20 years to 19 years and 360 days. That obviously makes her happy.

It is important to remember that these are just one small part of that package. The Good Work Plan sets out a very ambitious programme of work to do, some of which will require primary legislation, some no legislation at all, and some secondary legislation of this sort. We are committed to bringing forward further legislation. The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, and others will obviously have to wait until we get that. We will continue in that vein.

The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, expressed her concern that we were going to fall behind Europe. As I have made clear on other occasions—she knows my views—we are well ahead of European provisions in many areas. One has to look only at paternity pay, which was introduced by this Government, and at where we are on maternity pay. I could go on, but will not because we are debating only these three sets of regulations at the moment. There is a proud tradition, in all parts of the House, of getting workers’ rights right. We regularly surpass UK standards and are leading the way internationally in tackling challenges to modernise the labour market, at a time when it is, necessarily, changing because technology and the way we work change.

Unpaid Internships

Debate between Lord Henley and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

Tuesday 12th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

The noble Baroness is right to draw attention to the creative industries as an area where unpaid internships are particularly prevalent. My honourable friend Kelly Tolhurst and colleagues in the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport will hold a round-table meeting shortly with representatives of employers in the creative sectors. This meeting will be used to underline our policy on eliminating unpaid internships to sector leaders and to encourage them to take practical measures to stop their use in this sector.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lords, on this side of the House our preference would be a ban on the use of illegal unpaid internships. The 2017 Taylor review said:

“The Government should ensure that exploitative unpaid internships, which damage social mobility in the UK, are stamped out”.


I will try a different tack. If the Government are not going to ban them completely, will they undertake an analysis of the social class and background of those who get internships? I am sure it will further highlight the inequality which leads to those who have both the opportunity, as well as the means, being able to work for nothing.

Brexit: Small Businesses

Debate between Lord Henley and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

Tuesday 5th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I do not accept that. What is important is that we get a deal, and that is what we should all be behind. That is what businesses want and what we should all look for.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lords, we are 584 hours away from Brexit and we are discussing business preparedness, or the lack of it. Labour has repeatedly urged the Government to take no deal off the table, and believes that the threat of no deal is creating unnecessary uncertainty for businesses both large and small. In your Lordships’ House, we are dealing daily with SIs that will impact on the services, productivity and finances of SMEs. Would not the Minister’s department’s time be better spent dealing with some of the more pressing issues for SMEs, such as the scandal of late payments and other day to day issues, rather than working on a no-deal Brexit that nobody wants?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, all I can do is to repeat the position we are in at the moment. No deal is the default position. What is important is that we get a deal; that is what my right honourable friend the Prime Minister is seeking to do. If she had support from the party opposite, that would be a great deal of help.

Intellectual Property (Copyright and Related Rights) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018

Debate between Lord Henley and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

Monday 4th March 2019 Grand Committee

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride]

Well, my next point is on lack of consultation. The Minister touched on this because, again, he obviously saw this coming down the line. There was no detail in the statement about the stakeholders. In fact, there was a comment—unfortunately I have not written it down—on how consultation has been ongoing since the decision was taken on Brexit. That may well the case, but the specifics of the issues around this area are really important. It would have been nice, and still would be, to get a little more detail on who the consulted stakeholders are, when they were consulted and what that consultation looked like.

I will pick up on another of the Minister’s comments. To paraphrase, he said that the general public will know about this because we have this information about the loss of reciprocity on our website. Until picking up this SI and coming here to respond on behalf of the Opposition, I was not aware—which was obviously my fault—that reciprocity would be lost following no deal or the UK’s going into a third-country situation. The idea that it is widely known that individuals will lose access to online content—whether it be Netflix, iTunes or other aspects of it—is just not correct. If we are going to end up in this situation, some information from the department to the wider British public, whether through the businesses or the organisations, would be a good thing. It would make the public aware of what was coming down the line if we ended up with no deal.

I will not pick up on all the other issues; they were covered very well by the noble Baroness and the noble Lord. I am sure the Minister will pick up on the points about the Marrakesh treaty, so I will leave it there.

[Lord Henley]

I thank all noble Lords for their contributions. I will start off with consultation. At the time we were developing these regulations, we were in the early stage of negotiations. Revealing our continuity of approach through a public consultation might have risked our negotiating position, so it was not possible to conduct that full formal public consultation of the sort one would normally like. Within those constraints, the Government engaged with stakeholders in the creative and digital industries as far as possible: in August last year, officials in the department held a whole series of industry round tables to discuss no-deal planning with publishers, collective management organisations, broadcasters, technology firms, museums, archives and educational establishments. I could undoubtedly write to noble Lords and give them greater detail—for example, on the alliance for IP and the British Copyright Council, both of which are representative bodies that cover a broad range of copyright needs. I believe we engaged as far as was right and proper.

However, as the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, and my noble friend Lady McIntosh, stressed, there is an impact from no deal. We did an impact assessment on these regulations and the impact is minimal, but the wider impact of leaving without a deal will be greater. We recognise that leaving the EU without a deal will lead to disruption in the field of intellectual property for the UK’s creative industries. However, in passing this instrument, we will provide continuity wherever possible and, where changes to existing arrangements are unavoidable, we will ensure that clear and appropriate legislation is in place. I believe that that will minimise, as far as possible, disruption to the creative and digital industries, whose work obviously depends on an effective intellectual property framework.

The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, asked what the Government were doing to support UK broadcasters facing the loss of the AVMSD and the copyright country-of-origin principle. I assure him that it is still the Government’s intention to secure an agreement with the EU on our future relationship, and we set that out in last year’s White Paper. We want any deal to involve the best possible arrangements for the broadcasting sector. If we leave without a deal, broadcasters might face disruption due to the EU copyright country-of-origin principle ceasing to apply to the UK. Therefore, again, we sought to give broadcasters and others as much information as possible about the implications of no deal by publishing technical notices and detailed guidance on what that would mean for copyright. However, I make it clear that we will continue to seek a deal.

I also make it clear to the noble Lord and to my noble friend Lady McIntosh that we will continue to seek reciprocity. The political declaration provides a good basis on which to negotiate our future relationship with the EU on these matters. For copyright, this includes a commitment from both parties to maintain high levels of protection for database rights and artists’ resale rights. The specifics of our future relationship with the EU will obviously be the subject of those negotiations. However, as set out in the political declaration, our aim will be to make sure that the agreement continues to stimulate innovation, creativity and economic activity.

Further on reciprocity, the EU portability regulation works through reciprocal application of the cross-border rules. The regulations that we are dealing with today will not cover UK/EU travel in the event of no deal, and the UK obviously cannot replicate the effect of existing arrangements on a unilateral basis. However, keeping the portability regulation in UK law after exit would not have the same effect as an agreement on mutual cross-border portability. Instead, it would place unreciprocated and inappropriate obligations on service providers operating in the UK. Whether we can continue to agree reciprocal portability with the EU will have to be a matter for detailed negotiations. At this stage, I cannot go any further than that.

My noble friend also asked how the IPO came to this decision without an assessment of the loss of service in the UK. UK consumers of online content services might see changes in their services when they visit the EU after exit. This could range from being offered different content to having their access restricted. Ultimately, this will depend on the licences that their service providers have in place and the terms of service. That is a direct result of the UK being considered a third country under the portability regulation. Again, I stress that it is not something that we can deal with unilaterally.

My noble friend also asked about the effect on UK broadcasters. Without a deal, member states may cease to apply the country-of-origin principle to broadcasts from the UK, which will mean that UK broadcasters that transmit across the EU may need to renegotiate their licences to acquire rightholder permissions for every member state in which their broadcast is received. The issue arrives out of EU legislation; again, it is not something that we can address unilaterally.

I turn to the question which all three noble Lords asked about the ratification of the Marrakesh treaty. We are committed to making sure that people with disabilities continue to benefit from improved access to copyright-protected works. We are on track to ensure that we are able to ratify the Marrakesh treaty in our own right as soon as possible after exit. Our ratification will then need to be accepted by the World Intellectual Property Organization before we are once again considered a member of the treaty. While there is likely to be a delay between exit and the acceptance of our ratification in a no-deal scenario, we are working hard to ensure that this will be as short as possible.

There were a few more questions. The noble Lord, Lord McNicol, asked for any further information from the department explaining no-deal issues. I go back to the October 2018 guidance, which sets out in pretty clear terms what no deal means for copyright. I have a little more detail about who we consulted, but I do not think it adds anything to what I said before. I assure noble Lords that this included representatives and trade bodies from commercial broadcasters, collective management organisations, libraries and archives, tech firms, publishers, authors and photographers. I do not think I need to write with any further points. I think that deals with most, if not all, of the points raised, but I see that the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, would like to come in.

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I am afraid I cannot give any figure of that sort to the noble Lord and I am not sure it will be possible to do so. If I can do better, I will certainly write to him,

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride]

On the consultation, the Minister helpfully outlined a number of organisations. Were the SI and the issues around intellectual property that we are discussing today discussed as part of that round table?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I stress—I think I made this clear—that I used the words “round table” in the plural. There were a number of round tables and I am sure matters of the sort that are coming up today were discussed. If they were not, I will certainly write to the noble Lord, but I cannot believe that they were not discussed.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride]

It would be helpful to know with which organisations intellectual property was discussed.

[Lord Henley]

I commit to writing to both noble Lords on that issue. I beg to move.

Ecodesign for Energy-Related Products and Energy Information (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Debate between Lord Henley and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

Wednesday 13th February 2019 Grand Committee

[Lord Henley]

I was not thinking of those who had reached the maturity of 40; I was thinking of the somewhat younger ones who, despite their extraordinarily green credentials, take a slightly less purist approach to turning off lights and other procedure.

I shall deal quickly with some of the questions. On the impact assessment, I assure the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, that the instrument’s impact was assessed at below the annual cost of £5 million, which was why a full impact assessment was not required, but a de minimis impact analysis was undertaken to reach this conclusion and, in doing so, the department followed the guidance, so we are happy about that.

On consultation, I assure both noble Lords that we worked very closely with the industry and other organisations, meeting them and keeping them up-to-date via email. Last summer, officials met all the appropriate trade bodies to consult them. Views were sought on the proposal to keep the design of the energy label, remove obligations in relation to the EU product database and retain the legislative functions carried out by the Commission for the Secretary of State. In the main, as far as I know, the trade bodies supported all those proposals and stressed the importance of not imposing new costs on businesses and the UK being able to legislate after exit.

I shall deal with some of the more detailed points. The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, asked about the policing of this. Ecodesign enforcement and control activities are carried out by the Office for Product Safety and Standards. Energy labelling enforcement and control activities are carried out by that office and local authorities’ trading standards departments in Great Britain and by the Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland. The regulations will not result in any change in that policy.

The noble Lord also asked who holds the products register and whether there is one for the UK. There is no UK database, but there is an EU-wide database, which went live on 1 January this year. There have been delays on the public section of that database, but it remains broadly on track and, after exit, we will review whether to introduce a UK database. Again, I can give the assurance that we will consult on that. He also asked whether all appliances under the SI will be covered from the point of exit, and I can assure him that the changes come into force from exit day and there will be no gaps.

The noble Lord, Lord McNicol, was concerned that there could be a reduction in standards, but I can assure him that we continue to support all these policy measures, which cut energy bills and increase energy security. As stated in the Clean Growth Strategy, we will keep step with equivalent standards, but intend to go further where, as I think I said in my opening remarks, we believe that is in the interests of the UK.

I have dealt with the noble Lord’s concerns about consultation, but I just correct myself on the affirmative nature of SIs. Only the SIs that are not identical to EU standards will be affirmative. If they are not identical to EU standards, they will be negative. I think I have it the right way round.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride]

It is the other way around.

[Lord Henley]

It is the other way around, but the noble Lord has understood me anyway. He also wanted clarification on “designated standards” in the Explanatory Memorandum. The instrument renames the EU’s harmonised standards—the testing standards that can be used for the verification of products’ compliance with EU requirements—as “designated standards”. Designated standards will give rise to a presumption of conformity with UK legal requirements in the same way that the EU’s harmonised standards do in relation to EU requirements. To ensure continuity and not drive up testing costs, the testing standards in the UK and the EU will remain the same. That is what the UK industry wants. The reference to designated standards will again be published on GOV.UK. I believe that deals with the points that have been raised.

Storage of Carbon Dioxide (Amendment and Power to Modify) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018

Debate between Lord Henley and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

Wednesday 13th February 2019 Grand Committee

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lords, I am standing in for my noble friend Lord Grantchester, who cannot be with us this afternoon. This is another of the no-deal Brexit SIs, which would be completely unnecessary if the Government were to do the right thing: agree with Labour and others and rule out the possibility of a no-deal Brexit. If the Government were to do that, this House and the other place could spend more time dealing with far more important and relevant issues, and save the Civil Service, the ministerial Opposition and industry time and money—a simple solution.

This SI has already been through the other place, where it was passed in 10 or 11 minutes, so we are giving it a little more scrutiny in this House than in the other place. I note Dr Whitehead’s comments and those made by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson. On carbon capture itself, Dr Whitehead’s said that,

“it would be rather nice if we had some carbon capture and storage to put into those regulations”.—[Official Report, Commons, 28/1/19; col. 5.]

I have a couple of questions to add to the others asked by noble Lords. As the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, said, the Explanatory Memorandum details that BEIS engaged with the Oil and Gas Authority and the devolved Administrations. Could the Minister enlighten us as to the response from the authority and the Administrations?

The Government have stated that no specific monitoring arrangements are needed for this. Can the Minister detail whether the Government envisage any situation where the instrument will need to be looked at again? On the Minister’s second point, on changes to technical or scientific specifications, will there be any parliamentary scrutiny or oversight, or do those changes sit in the hands of the department and the Minister?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I am again grateful to all noble Lords for their contributions. On the last point made by the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, I am not aware that there will be any further parliamentary oversight of this order once it has gone through. Of course, as I said in my opening remarks, we are clear that this deals with a no-deal situation, but it might possibly also be necessary in the event of a deal. We have to see what the deal is, and then see what precisely is needed. The important thing at this stage is to provide a degree of certainty to the industry to make sure that it knows what is happening; that is true of a large number of the regulations coming before us.

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, seems to think that the Government’s action was not sufficiently vigorous, that we have not done enough over the years and that nothing will happen until 2030—that we could leave this order until 2029. I suspect that neither I nor the noble Lord will be here by that stage—the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, looks so young that I am sure he will still be here debating orders of this sort, which he will greatly enjoy. The important thing, as I said in response to the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, is to get certainty.

I believe that we have been ambitious. My right honourable friends Claire Perry and the Secretary of State are ambitious, and, moving wider than CCUS, we have acted well on all other matters relating to renewables. As I said in a recent debate, this applies both to the coalition Government, and therefore to the Lib Dems, and to the previous Labour Government, who passed the Energy Act with all-party support—all sides of the political spectrum have been acting well on this. We have an ambitious action plan designed to enable the first CCUS facility in the UK, with commissioning from the mid-2020s.

I also assure the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, that the CCUS Council has been established. It is co-chaired by James Smith; it held a meeting at the end of last year and will meet again in March. The noble Lord can be assured of action on that.

I can also offer assurance about consultation on the specific point raised by the noble Lord, Lord McNicol. As I said, both the OGA and the devolved Administrations were consulted; the latter, as is appropriate, gave their consent, and the OGA was also content.

My noble friend Lady McIntosh was concerned about consultation. She will not be surprised that we rather expect questions on consultation on all of these regulations, because that seems to be what has been happening. We have not formally consulted, as noble Lords will be aware, on this particular statutory instrument, as the impact on businesses and government will be minimal. This is because the changes are technical and enable the regulatory regime to continue functioning largely as it does now. We did not think it was necessary to consult formally on this, but, as I said, we consulted those particular bodies and published a technical notice in October setting out the climate change requirements in a no-deal scenario.

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, also asked about the Ospar Convention. I apologise to him because I am unsighted on that matter, but I will write to him. With that, I commend the regulations.

Buildings: Energy Performance

Debate between Lord Henley and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

Tuesday 11th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I think the owners of most new buildings go to a great deal of trouble to make sure that they are properly insulated. They have to be insulated up to a certain level. I will write to my noble friend in greater detail. Whether they want to go further and whether that should be mandatory is another question.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

I am sure the Minister will agree that improving the energy efficiency of buildings plays a crucial role in tackling fuel poverty and helping to bring down bills for the most vulnerable. According to the Committee on Climate Change, the Government are “off-track” to meet their fourth and fifth carbon budgets. Can the Minister set out to the House what steps, if any, his Government are taking to get back on track?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, my understanding is that we have met our first carbon budget. We are on track to meet our second and third. I will take advice on where we are on the fourth, and write to the noble Lord.

Timeshare, Holiday Products, Resale and Exchange Contracts (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018

Debate between Lord Henley and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

Wednesday 21st November 2018 Grand Committee

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lords, this is one of the more straightforward regulations. We can see that by the fact that we have lost my noble friend Lord Foulkes from our discussion. As was touched on, the main aim is to change references to “the EEA” to “the UK”, and similar changes in language from “official language of an EEA state” to “English”. At this stage, I cannot find much of substance to disagree with. However, I am sure my shadow BEIS colleagues may have some points to raise when this is discussed in the other place. Like my noble friend Lord Foulkes before me, I have just a couple of questions for the Minister.

First, much of the instrument deals only with replacing European references with domestic alternatives. However, the regulations will also ensure that contracts governed by the law of an EEA state will be treated in the same way as contracts governed by the law of non-EEA third countries. Did the Government consider any other option for EEA contracts?

Secondly, prior to the publication of this instrument, the Government chose not to carry out a consultation. This seems fair, considering the volume of secondary legislation and the relatively minor impact that this will have. However, it could be expected that the Government will have held informal conversations with those affected by the regulations. Will the Minister explain whether any such discussions, with industry or others, have taken place?

Thirdly, the Explanatory Memorandum claims that there is no impact on UK businesses. However, as a result of this instrument, businesses dealing with timeshares will surely have to acquaint themselves with the new regulations. Does the Minister not agree that, however minor, there will be some necessary adjustments for business to make?

Finally, on a similar note, does the Minister agree, like me, with the comments of his colleague the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions? This morning, she said that the UK will not be leaving on a no-deal Brexit as there is no majority in the other place for that to pass.

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I remind the noble Lord that we had a referendum a couple of years ago and we agreed that we were leaving the EU. That was the manifesto that both the party I represent and the noble Lord’s party went to the country on in 2017. We are leaving the EU. It depends on what terms. These regulations are about dealing with the question: what will happen if there is no deal? We hope there will be a deal but if there is no deal, we want to make sure that the proper protections are there.

The noble Lord, Lord Fox, asked a number of questions which went slightly wider than the regulations in front of us. The important thing to say to anyone who is thinking of buying a timeshare, whether in this country or another, is that whatever they do, they must take all the proper legal advice. I have no plans, when I walk round a golf course on the Algarve—which I have never done and have no intention of doing—to buy a timeshare, but there are people who want to buy timeshares and they serve a purpose. Whatever they do, the important thing is to make sure that they are getting the right advice, either in this country, if they are buying it here, or in another country. I think we would all agree on that point. Where people have had problems, it is very often because they have bought in the manner that the noble Lord, Lord Fox, seemed to be suggesting—someone comes up to them while they are on holiday and makes this suggestion.

Now that we are leaving, what protection will UK consumers have when buying timeshares in Portugal? Obviously, it will depend on where the consumer bought the timeshare. UK consumers who buy timeshares under UK law will be covered by the protections in the existing timeshare regime. If they are buying timeshares in Portugal from Portuguese traders, they will generally be subject to Portuguese law and the protections that that member state extends to non-EEA nationals. Consumers will be encouraged to understand the specific conditions of the contract and to take all appropriate advice.

The noble Lord also asked: how do we prevent people being misled? Obviously, I share his concern for vulnerable consumers who are unfairly targeted by manipulative and misleading sales tactics in many industries, but particularly here. I believe that the current timeshare regime, reviewed and updated by the 2010 regulations, provides adequate protections for timeshare consumers. The regulations require that clear and comprehensive information is provided to the consumer before any contract is agreed; that information on termination must also form part of the contract; that timeshare buyers also have the option to change their mind within two weeks of signing a contract, during which no money can be taken; and so on.

The noble Lord, Lord McNicol, asked whether it was possible that there would be further changes. He will be aware that the European Union (Withdrawal) Act does not give us the powers to create any legislation or substantially change any retained EU legislation. The changes that this instrument would bring into effect are made in exercise of those powers, to remedy deficiencies in retained law and not to change the effect of retained law. But we know that many people have concerns about some of the protections. I can give an assurance to the noble Lord that my right honourable friend and others will always keep these matters under review if we feel that there are not the appropriate protections. This will always be a concern. The Government would act if necessary.

Business Contract Terms (Assignment of Receivables) Regulations 2018

Debate between Lord Henley and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

Wednesday 17th October 2018 Grand Committee

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Minister for the introduction to this SI. This is my sixth week in your Lordships’ House and it is a pleasure to be speaking on my first SI. If I make any procedural or other errors, please forgive me. I am still learning and have a long way to go.

Invoice financing as set out in paragraph 7 of the Explanatory Memorandum is one way of securing working capital. More simply, it is the ability to borrow money against unpaid invoices to improve cash flow. We on this side agree that invoice financing has its place, but it is not always the solution to the problem. When laying these regulations, Her Majesty’s Government have missed a great opportunity to sort out the wider issue, which the Minister touched on, around payment culture. The recent consultation on prompt payment received some very good responses on the wider issue of late payment which simply must be addressed soon. In excess of £2 billion a year is owed to SMEs in late payments—payments past the agreed invoice payment date. Does the Minister agree that this is a far larger and more easily solvable problem?

I was general secretary of the Labour Party before coming here. The Labour Party led on this by example and had 30-day payment terms. More widely, there is the absurdity of having a voluntary prompt payment code. Many large firms are signatories but there is no enforcement, so in real terms the code is worthless, especially as many companies have 60-day terms.

What if a company breaches those terms? Let us not forget that Carillion was a signatory but then went on and changed its payment terms to 120 days. Does the Minister agree with me that a sensible term for the code, even in its voluntary state, would be 30 days? Why has the prompt payment code not been made compulsory? Why has consideration not even been given to making it so? These reforms would help to solve the problem that IF looks to solve.

The correspondence with the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee touched on the question of implementation dates. I note the Government’s response supporting the status quo, but do they still believe that there is any point in having common commencement dates? The CCDs of 1 October and 6 April each year are introduced to help businesses to plan for new regulations and increase awareness of the introduction of new or changed requirements, yet these regulations are to be introduced 21 days after they are passed. As the correspondence with the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee reveals, it is not as if there has been a great rush to get these regulations in. As we can see from the Explanatory Memorandum, the first discussion paper was published in 2013, so I am sure that another few months’ delay to ensure better regulation would not have hurt.

I congratulate the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy team on their detailed and helpful work on the impact assessment and the Explanatory Memorandum. Having said that, I think the committee has done a brilliant job of sorting out the documents before us and holding the Government to account for a certain amount of confusion. It might have taken time, but I believe it would have been better if the Government had issued new documentation following the consultation. As the Minister said, substantial amendments to the regulations were made, so was the impact assessment carried out after they were made or before, in 2013?

I turn to the substance of the regulation. Could the Minister satisfy me that no problems or unintended consequences of these regulations may arise in the accounting treatment following the introduction of these regulations? I am thinking particularly of when income from invoice financing is to be recognised in the accounts of a trading company when that is not done through factoring. If the Minister is unable to give me a direct answer today, I am more than happy for him to write to me.

Paragraph 7.4 of the Explanatory Memorandum states that this regulation will help diversify finance markets and encourage competition. Could the Minister expand a little on how exactly that will happen? The bit that confuses me is the exclusion of large companies from IF. Could the Minister explain why they have been excluded, especially as paragraph 10.7 of the Explanatory Memorandum, as he touched on earlier, outlines the problem with large commercial contracts, not large commercial companies or businesses per se? Paragraph 10.8 then outlines the solution of banning large companies from IF. This appears to be a completely different answer to a completely different question. Maybe the Minister could explain what the persuasive arguments by the legal profession were and how these led the Government to exclude large companies from IF.

In the Explanatory Memorandum, under the heading “Territorial Extent”, the paragraph following Paragraph 10.14 is labelled 10.1. I think that this is just a typographical mistake but it should be picked up on. The serious point here is that the regulations appear to interact with powers devolved to the Scottish Parliament. Is that right? If so, did the Government consider seeking a legislative consent Motion? If not, why not?

As I said at the start, the Opposition will not oppose these regulations on invoice financing, but it is a shame that the Government missed the opportunity to bring forward legislation to improve invoice payment practices within these regulations.

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I offer my welcome to the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, on his first appearance at the Dispatch Box. I look forward to many more in the future. He will know that it was during the opening of the batting, as it were, of my honourable friend Kelly Tolhurst that she brought these regulations before another place some weeks ago. She was probably grateful for the noble Lord’s opposite number in another place for giving her a relatively easy run on them.

I think that I have broad agreement from both the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, and the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, that the regulations are doing the right thing, but obviously they have wider questions. Some of them are impossible to answer at this stage. For example, I think it was the noble Lord who asked whether I could give a guarantee that there would be no unintended consequences as a result of this. That goes slightly wide in that one never knows whether there will be unintended consequences until the unintended consequence hits one in the face. However, we certainly will, as with all matters, keep these under review as they develop.

I will start dealing with some of the more detailed questions. The noble Baroness, Lady Burt, asked a very sensible question as to why some companies have these contract terms. I think that I made it clear in my opening remarks that we were not absolutely sure. I think I quote myself in saying that there is some debate as to why these restrictive terms persist in ordinary purchase contracts. Some suppliers suggest that this is a deliberate attempt. I have to say that the evidence is mixed. Either way, these regulations will resolve this issue and those terms will be removed, but, to come back to the point that the noble Lord made about unintended consequences, and as the noble Baroness said with her detailed questions about I think paragraph 10.13, we consulted very carefully on these regulations and we want to make sure that we get them right.

On paragraph 10.13, there are situations where companies need long-term, trusting relationships. That is why, in that case, assignment can be undesirable. We do not know precisely and we will keep them under review, but we hope that these regulations will get to the heart of the matter.

However, that takes us on to the broader question that both noble Lords raised, particularly the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, about the wider problem of prompt payment. That is why I quoted the figures earlier. We have seen some improvement. The number of overdue debts outstanding has halved in the past five years, which is pretty good; it is down from 30 billion to 14 billion. I want to make it clear to noble Lords—this goes way beyond the regulations—that we are not complacent about this matter. Further action is under way to bring that number down further. We do not believe that companies having to make use of invoice financing is a substitute for prompt payment by those who owe them money.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride]

There was a specific issue with larger companies. I am still struggling to understand why they were excluded. What was the reasoning behind that? The impact assessment was carried out with the inclusion of large companies. If we look at the bottom of its front page, the assessment was signed on 4 July 2018 although it took place earlier, in 2015. That is three and a half years out of date. Is that normal? As I said, substantial changes were made; I would appreciate more information on that.

[Lord Henley]

Obviously with the larger companies there is less of the problem of what one might refer to as the imbalance of power between the two parties. For that reason, we thought it was easier for them to negotiate the appropriate terms. Whether we have got that precisely right in terms of the size, I do not know—again, these matters were consulted on—but I hope we have. There was the question of whether, where there is no imbalance, they might feel the need to keep these terms on those occasions. If I wish to add a little more to that, I will consider very carefully what I have said and write to the noble Lord.