Indeterminate Sentences

Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick Excerpts

Monday 29th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Stewart of Dirleton (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate’s example will strike a chord with noble Lords across the House and engage their sympathy. The work the Government are carrying out to establish psychology services is, as I said, multidisciplinary in nature and involves not only expert psychologists but dedicated probation officers, specialists in their field and those who have looked at the problems of suicide in prison. We are working in particular with a group called UNGRIPP and a Mrs Donna Mooney, who has done great work in this field. We are engaged with the Howard League for Penal Reform. There is also a commitment to working with the Samaritans to provide further assistance for persons coming out of the prison estate.

[Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick (CB)]

My Lords, do the Government not feel ashamed of the obvious injustice of the continuing 16,000 former IPP residents in prison who are still on IPP sentences? This is a gross injustice that lingers in people’s lives, who are in a place of permanent panic and unable to get on with their day-to-day existence because they are looking over their shoulder, wondering whether they be tapped for a recall. In the past 10 years I have visited 73 prisons up and down the UK and met hundreds of IPP people inside prison, and I have not encountered a single one who was not worthy of release tomorrow. The system is so badly broken. It needs a kind of approach that we had for the Post Office that clears out the residue of this long, unjust sentence, which was described as a great evil by two former Home Secretaries.

[Lord Stewart of Dirleton (Con)]

My Lords, the number of IPP prisoners are down to 1,312 as of 30 June 2023, from a maximum of 6,000. I hear the noble Lord’s views on the worthiness for release of those whom he has met, but it is not something which can be consigned to an individual; it is a matter for consideration by persons holding a wide range of specialisms and experience. I do not share the view that the Government should be ashamed of their response. The latest review by the inspectorate found that His Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service is taking “proportionate” and “necessary” decisions to recall offenders on an IPP licence for public protection.

Royal Commission on Criminal Justice

Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick (CB)]

My Lords, while I accept the Government’s best intentions to deliver justice, could the Minister inform the House of the precise numbers of prisoners still being held under IPP provisions, and the disproportion of black prisoners that IPP continues to blight despite its removal in law? When will the Government end this appalling scourge of denied justice? Will the royal commission finally resolve it?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

The position with IPP prisoners has been addressed frequently in the past. Of course the legislation in 2012 was not and could not be retrospective. I cannot give a precise number as at today’s date of IPP prisoners held nor of their ethnic backgrounds, but I will write to the noble Lord with up-to-date information and place a copy of that letter in the Library of the House.

Prisoners (Disclosure of Information About Victims) Bill

Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 28th April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick (CB)]

My Lords, I remind the House of my interest in the register as founder and chairman of Crime Concern, which gave birth to Victim Support. All of us agree that the Bill is much needed and timely. It may be simple in the paragraphs contained in it, but it is profoundly essential. It is a dignity measure for victims—a measure that strips bare those vindictive and harsh offenders who wish to hide behind their crimes and the mask that an illusion will eventually pass over our concerns. These vulgar and violent crimes cannot and should not be forgotten.

I am conscious that the seriousness and importance of this legislation reflects a great effort on the part of the Ministry of Justice and the Government to tighten the law. We cannot disagree, given the cases involved that have set the boundaries for the Bill, that it is vital and necessary. When the Minister comes to wrap up the debate, will he indicate whether the Government have an interest in bringing forward any further legislation to tighten up other aspects of the law on the release of prisoners? Whether they are appropriate or not, there may be further dimensions for consideration by the Parole Board, or even by those with wider sentencing or probation powers.

Yesterday, we heard in the other place that just 33 prisoners have been released out of the proposed 4,000 in the decision of the Ministry of Justice on 4 April. This would imply that the release procedure has gone wrong somewhere. We know that a few offenders were released and then recalled. It also suggests that the promise of release for good reason, as agreed by many in this House and the other place, as well as by public campaigners, means that sometimes too many people are allowed to languish for too long in our system. That is itself an element of injustice. How will the Government fulfil their responsibility, set out on 4 April, to release prisoners who pose no harm to wider society, in particular as they have done not only for pregnant women prisoners but for those with disabilities, of great age or who are suffering from other illnesses? Can the Minister comment on that aspect or, if it is not in his brief, will he write to the House? This is a matter of dignity. While the Bill is about dignity for victims, the entire criminal justice system needs to have that element of dignity about it.

My noble friend Lord Hogan-Howe, who is not in his place today, and I have been looking at a number of cases involving miscarriages of justice relating to offenders that are of serious concern. We are here to pass a vital Bill because it will place further duties on the Parole Board and on the structure of how considerations of parole and possible release are brought forward. What consideration is the Ministry of Justice now giving to beefing up the need for enhanced legal aid to support those in need of better consideration of their cases? What thought is being given to the Criminal Cases Review Commission, which seems to have been consistently weakened over decades so that its ability to bring forward cases of genuine need—to see that justice is done—is now much reduced? In particular, perhaps I may highlight what seems to be the number of IPP prisoners who are languishing while being held in our prison system, given that the current number is around 2,400. They are serving indeterminate sentences with no notice of release.

I am raising these issues because the Bill is about justice for victims but, at the same time, we should not make others the victims of injustice by allowing miscarriages of justice to be disregarded. I hope, as would we all, that as the Bill passes on to the statute book—as it should, so that families, in particular the McCourt family, get some sense of peace at long last because the right thing has been done—we do not allow the wrong thing to continue simply because it does not make for a good headline. I ask instead that justice is comprehensive and that the Ministry of Justice takes account of all those affected by the criminal justice system.

Covid-19: Prisons and Offender Rehabilitation

Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick Excerpts

Thursday 23rd April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord German, for giving us this opportunity—

[The Senior Deputy Speaker]

Could the noble Lord speak nearer the microphone, please?

[Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick]

I certainly will, as best I can. I refer to the letter sent to every prisoner by Phil Copple, director-general of prisons, at the beginning of the lockdown. It said that they needed to have forbearance, patience, self-control, restraint and tolerance. He assured them that the Prison Service would look after them with humanity and due dignity.

I made an inquiry of a number of people I know inside the Prison Service to ask how their experience was. I will quote just three. First, this is from a prisoner in Surrey:

“I have been treated poorly throughout the period of the lockdown. I have been provided with no updates as to what the lockdown means other than to remain in my cell until further notice. I have been provided with very limited telephone usage, limited sanitation and no means to cope with prolonged confinement e.g. education.”


This is from another prisoner in Kent:

“No communication or update whatsoever with what’s going on both in/outside of jail. Having 1 hot meal a day at lunchtime and getting a baguette … by 4pm … Basically being told to put up and shut up! I’ve not been seen by no member of healthcare concerning”


well-known mental health issues, skin allergies and other physical needs—no medical support of any nature.

This is a final one from a prisoner in Hampshire:

“People with mental health issues are being neglected and deteriorating because of long periods of confinement to cells with no regime.”


This is a massive failure of human dignity, abruptly disregarded. I urge the Minister to respond with dignity.

Queen’s Speech

Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick Excerpts

Wednesday 8th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick (CB)]

My Lords, thank goodness we will have a royal commission on the criminal justice system. I recall that during the previous Queen’s Speech, not so long ago, I called for a royal commission, noting that for all of us who care very deeply for victims as well as for the potential of former perpetrators, it is about time this murky system was turned inside out and we had a fresh look at the potential of change.

I noted that at the beginning of today’s debate the noble and learned Lord, Lord Keen, referred to the incident on London Bridge, which we are all deeply aware of, as a reminder of the painful reality of terrorism. However, the context is that it was also a reminder of the beautiful volunteerism, compassion and engagement of Jack, Saskia and all those others who gave themselves with determination to support the multitudes who have been reformed, many of whom rushed to get to the man, whose subsequent death was necessary to end that act of terrorism. We need to have a much more positive view of the potential of people who have recognised their crimes and come to terms with the need to have a future.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Keen, also said that not only should we strengthen victims’ rights but we should call for a fair justice system that works for everyone. Everyone means everyone and includes those put behind bars, who will emerge and have a life beyond, and families and communities, who also need to see fairness and justice done.

The last royal commission on the criminal justice system ended its deliberations 27 years ago. Under Lord Runciman, it recommended the creation of the CCRC—the Criminal Cases Review Commission—specifically to look into miscarriages of justice. Anyone who has had involvement with the CCRC knows that it has been starved of cash and that it is now barely taking up substantive cases that urgently need consideration. Far too many people are languishing unfairly when their cases need to be reviewed.

Next week, the well-affirmed American advocate, Bryan Stevenson, will be here with us in Parliament and there will be an opportunity to meet him. The film about his great work on miscarriages of justice in the American system, “Just Mercy”, will be released by Warner Bros in just over a week. I have seen it twice on preview. It is a very painful statement of what happens to people when a system decides to crush them rather than recognise that they may well have gone through a deceitful and unnecessary process. We need a royal commission to ensure that we have integrity and honesty in our criminal justice system.

Thirty-three years ago, in 1987, a former Member of this House, my great friend Lord Hurd, phoned me with a very simple request. He asked whether I would be willing to start an organisation—subsequently called Crime Concern—along with other Members of this House, although they were not Members at the time, to create what he called a culture of alternatives to custody. I remember that in that conversation Douglas Hurd, the then Home Secretary, said that we could not continue to let the numbers in the prison estate balloon, as that would destroy the core of our society. Crime Concern flourished for 21 years. I was its chairman for 15 years and we created Catch22, of which I became vice-president. I am thrilled to have had 33 years of engagement on this issue. I have attended multiple prisons and am now a regular prison visitor, working with offenders and former offenders to get justice in their cases.

However, I have seen what can go right and what can go terribly wrong. I had a text on my phone last night from a young man who came out of a five-year sentence in Brixton Prison. He came here on the day of his release, and I was pleased to give him lunch because I had seen over that period how he had been reformed. However, since coming out of prison in October, because of an unknown, unnamed probation officer he has been denied proper housing by his local authority. He is now sofa-surfing in an area where previous crimes had taken place. That is not sensible and that anonymity is not good.

I also have a letter here, which I will not make easily shown, from a prisoner who has been moved from a prison in the south of England to Durham. His family is now nearly 300 miles away. He was moved without reason or justification, despite the fact that he has a full record of exceptional behaviour. I know that, because I know him and have seen his behaviour. How will that enhance his rehabilitation so that he becomes a man of usefulness to society?

Therefore, we need a royal commission. We need to get it right. We have injustices that must be corrected and we have an opportunity to do the best that we can.