Housing and Planning Bill
Debate between Lord Harris of Haringey and Lord Palmer of Childs Hill
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill
I would be happy to do that, but I have tried to let the Committee off that treat.
Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)
My Lords, I think the main concern that many of us had was that the noble Lord was going to sing it.
I want to intervene briefly on this group because quite an important set of principles is involved here. Making communities work in the context of new developments is quite a skill, which local authorities develop over time. For example, there is a difference in nature between student accommodation and other types of what would no doubt be considered to be affordable accommodation. You are usually talking about one-bedroomed units designed for young people. It is a very different sort of accommodation. However, planning for that and for all the other facilities and so on in the local area can be determined only at a local level by people who know the areas concerned and know how it is going to work.
It is right that there is recognition of the importance of student accommodation and that it is taken into account, but it has to be acknowledged that often those in the local area will be best able to determine how to make it work so that the different communities in a particular area will be able to co-exist and complement each other. I am conscious of a number of developments where the arrival of student accommodation has been very important for the regeneration of that area and has benefited other communities. As opposed to hostility to the noisy nocturnal dwellers that students often are, these developments have been a catalyst for enabling other things to be placed in that area, to be viable, and to work extremely well.
Having listened to the exchange between my noble friend and the Minister about her daughter, I recall a discussion I once had with somebody about my son. He was strip-searched in the airport, which was news to me—as a parent you do not hear about that—and I was worried that, in terms of what goes on in the back streets of a no doubt very comfortable part of Newcastle, my noble friend was going to stray into that territory.
It is important to understand the value of student accommodation in many local communities and the fact that what will work is best planned locally. At the same time the different nature of student accommodation should be recognised in the planning process.
Consumer Rights Bill
Debate between Lord Harris of Haringey and Lord Palmer of Childs Hill
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)
My Lords, I will talk to Amendment 81D and in doing so I declare an interest as a director of the Property Redress Scheme Advisory Council. I support what the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, said, and want to add briefly to her detailed comments.
The noble Baroness spoke about the £2.7 billion estimated to be held in clients’ funds. I might add that this was calculated by the industry as the amount that letting agents will be holding in tenants’ deposits and one month’s rent. That was how it was calculated; it seems a fairly sensible estimate. So, there is £2.7 billion in clients’ funds, some of which is at risk. There are already clients’ money protection schemes run by some of the organisations described by the noble Baroness. However, if the letting agent is not covered for client money protection both the landlords and the tenants stand to lose their money. If it is not one of the estate agents or one of these big organisation schemes, which are not compulsory other than for the members of that organisation, these tenants and landlords—it is both—would lose their money. The amendment is designed to protect both parties in the event that an agent goes bust or misappropriates the clients’ funds, as it covers any losses through the actions of the letting agent.
The consumer protection offered by this amendment would be financed by the industry itself and would not need the financial backing that the Government currently provide—I am not sure that the noble Baroness mentioned that point but I thought I should highlight it. At the moment it is a voluntary protection, and it works for a lot of the industry. There are forces in play which could protect the moneys owed to the landlord or tenant if something goes wrong with the letting agent. However, there are many letting agents which are not a part of such an organisation. There are two voluntary schemes that I know of, one of which was mentioned by the noble Baroness. All this amendment seeks to do is to protect the very people who are most at risk: a landlord or tenant using a letting agent which is not part of a larger organisation. This would turn a voluntary scheme into a compulsory scheme overseen in the way the noble Baroness described. If we ever got to a vote on this, I would support it.
Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)
My Lords, I repeat my declaration of interests as chair of the National Trading Standards Board. Of particular relevance here is that we fund the National Trading Standards Estate Agency Team, which is responsible for issuing individual banning or warning orders under the Estate Agents Act 1979, maintaining a public register of such banning or warning orders, and approving and monitoring consumer redress schemes. Of course, those activities apply specifically to estate agents; they do not cover letting agents. As my noble friend Lady Hayter said when she introduced the amendment, it is noticeable that there are occasions when estate agents are banned under the Estate Agents Act and then reopen as letting agents. As far as many members of the public are concerned, there is not much difference between them.
The purpose of the amendments is extremely helpful. First, they address the problem that is becoming increasingly an issue for estate agents of trying to charge both the seller and the buyer for the same transaction. I have to say, I find this an extraordinary process because my understanding of the word “agent” is that you are acting on behalf of somebody. How can you act on behalf of both the seller and the purchaser? There is clearly a conflict of interest. It is not clear that anyone benefits from this arrangement, apart from those estate agents that claim fees from both sides of the transaction.
It is an anomaly that letting agents are treated differently from estate agents. I would have thought that that is something it would be sensible to address as part of this process. I know that the Government are keen to avoid duplication and so on, so why are they not moving towards treating estate agents and letting agents in the same way and by the same regulation process?
The point that has been made about the consumer protection of clients’ money by letting agencies is, again, unanswerable. I find it extraordinary that with this particular type of transaction there is not the sort of protection that you would expect in most other instances where a professional or so-called professional body is holding money on your behalf. I hope that the Minister will be positive about the themes in these amendments and try to ensure that we can incorporate those principles somewhere in the Bill before it goes much further.