Illegal Immigrants (Criminal Sanctions) Bill

Debate between Lord Harrington of Watford and David Nuttall

Friday 4th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Richard Harrington]

My hon. Friend is right: our policy is not to allow asylum seekers to work until their legal status has been decided, but we have tried to shorten the intervening time. I should make clear that those who are covered by our humanitarian protection programme are allowed to work with no interregnum, because their status was sorted out when they were given their visas in the first place. However, I think we would all agree that, whether their applications are successful or not, the period during which asylum seekers do not know where they stand is too long. Given that they are also a burden on the United Kingdom taxpayer because they receive significant assistance from the state—although some might argue that it is not enough—it is in everyone’s interests to ensure that their status is determined very quickly.

We are taking further steps to limit the factors that draw illegal migrants to the United Kingdom. We have, for example, created a role for a director of labour market enforcement, which extends the powers that are currently available to the Gangmasters Licensing Authority. We are also amending the criminal sanction for employing people unlawfully in the United Kingdom, which will make it easier to bring prosecutions. For the first time, rogue businesses will face a real possibility of imprisonment for repeated or serious breaches of labour market legislation. At present, many such breaches are punishable through a fine, which the businesses involved regard as merely a cost of working, almost as we regard paying tax or any of the other normal working expenses. That is outrageous, because they are committing a criminal offence.

We are improving immigration enforcement by imposing tougher conditions on illegal migrants, denying them further access to services including housing and banking, and giving more powers to immigration officers conducting enforcement operations. The Immigration Bill will enable landlords to obtain possession of their property when their tenants no longer have a right to rent. We are also creating four new criminal offences to target rogue landlords and agents who deliberately and repeatedly fail to comply with the right to rent scheme, or fail to evict individuals who they know—or have reasonable cause to believe—are disqualified from renting as a result of their immigration status.

We are dealing with rogue employers, just as we are dealing with rogue landlords and driving by illegal immigrants. Many people have been taking advantage of the present system, but they will no longer be allowed to do so, and will face criminal sanctions. It will be possible, for instance, to close business premises for up to 48 hours when an employer has already incurred a civil penalty, or has been prosecuted for employing illegal workers. We are attacking the infrastructure that currently surrounds illegal immigrants: we are attacking every aspect of their lives that is illegal. More important, we are attacking those who actually perpetrate the illegality. For example, the Bill makes illegal working a criminal offence in its own right, because we think that that is sensible.

[Mr Nuttall]

Will the Minister now answer the question that I asked earlier? In January 2014, he said that these provisions were not necessary because they were in the Immigration Act. If someone who is in the country illegally can already be dealt with under the Act, what is the point of creating a specific offence?

[Richard Harrington]

I did answer my hon. Friend’s earlier question, and I will answer this question in the same way. We are talking about the combination of an existing Act and a Bill that is going through Parliament. As I have just said, the Immigration Bill will make illegal working a criminal offence in its own right, and that will cover self-employed as well as employed people. Moreover, it will be possible for wages paid to illegal workers to be seized as the proceeds of crime, through the activation of powers conferred by the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002.

There seems to be an argument that we need this Bill because the Government are doing nothing, and because there is complete anarchy relating to illegal immigration. The European Union referendum came up quite a lot in the earlier part of the debate, and I accept that that discussion would have been stopped if we had been under your supervision, Mr Deputy Speaker. Your predecessor in the Chair—Mr Speaker himself—was perhaps more tolerant on this issue. [Hon. Members: “Ooh!”] I did not mean the issue of whether we should remain in the European Union; I meant the issue of whether this debate should be expanded to cover that subject.

I always listen very carefully to my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough. He centred a lot of his speech on Europe and on the consequences of leaving the EU that French Ministers have been mentioning recently. I do not think that that is relevant to this debate. I think it was my hon. Friend the Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Tom Tugendhat) who said that if we were not in the EU, we would have to have different relations with France anyway and everything would need to be renegotiated. So I am slightly confused about this. What does my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough think an illegal immigrant is? No one could possibly say that all the people from Europe who are here at the moment, including the Polish people who have been mentioned, are illegal immigrants. Would they become illegal immigrants? It has been made very clear that they are all coming here to work.

Prevention of Social Housing Fraud Bill

Debate between Lord Harrington of Watford and David Nuttall

Friday 13th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

I was very fortunate to be drawn in the ballot for private Members’ Bills in a position where I felt I could do something that would make a difference to people’s lives. I know that everybody says that when they do well in the ballot, but I realised that it was important to do something in an area in which I had some interest in the past and in which I believed I could build a consensus in the House. My short experience has told me that that is the best way to make any progress. I thank Members in all parts of the House who have helped me with the Bill, including the current and previous Governments. Having been through most of my right hon. and hon. Friends and colleagues, I can say that I have had unanimous support.

The Bill has one clear objective—to prevent the fraudulent use of social housing, which has gone on for so long. Constituents and others who wrote in once the Bill had received some publicity found it strange that illegally sub-letting social housing—a flat or house that formerly would have been known as a council house and which is now part of social housing—is not a criminal offence.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on his success in the ballot. He mentions that the problem has been going on for a long time. Is there any particular reason why he felt it necessary to introduce the Bill now? Is the problem getting worse? How have we managed without such a measure for so long?

[Richard Harrington]

My hon. Friend, as usual, makes a considered point. I do not quite know the answer. I do not know why the problem has not been dealt with before. When researching the subject, I noticed that it had been talked about for a long time. Bodies such as the Serious Fraud Office and the National Audit Office have identified the problem, and for years Governments have had it on their mind, but it is one of those small things that slip through the net of legislation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Harrington]

I thank my hon. Friend for her comments.

I find it strange that many other types of social housing fraud are already criminal offences. It is well known that making fraudulent right-to-buy applications, lying on forms when applying for social homes and misrepresenting financial circumstances to obtain social housing are all caught by criminal legislation, but sub-letting is important, because the authorities perceive it to be the most prevalent abuse and it has never been included in such legislation.

[Mr Nuttall]

My hon. Friend could be forgiven for not knowing the answer to this question, but I hope that he may able to assist me. As we have heard in his excellent speech, this problem is prevalent throughout the country. What action has been taken in the past when it has occurred? Surely the courts and the police could have prosecuted for offences such as obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception.

[Richard Harrington]

I will make every attempt to answer my hon. Friend’s question. There are two answers. First, it is possible to bring prosecutions for fraud under the Theft Act 1968. He mentioned obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception, which is what the offence was called when I last studied law in 1979, but that may have changed; I was not very good at the subject then, and I am certainly a lot worse now. I think that there have been some criminal prosecutions. However, I know from speaking to people at the housing associations and enforcement officers at local authorities that it is quite hard to prove in court that there was a fraudulent intent. Far too many cases of blatant abuse have not gone through the necessary hoops to be caught by the Theft Act but are still basically fraudulent in the context of my argument.

The second answer to my hon. Friend’s question is that—