Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Hannay of Chiswick and Lord Marland

Monday 31st January 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

Could I just follow up the Minister’s point about the work that Ofgem is doing? I thought I understood him to say—perhaps he did not—that if it came to the conclusion that the UK needed more gas storage as part of its studies, action would be taken. Does that mean to say that its findings could come in time to make an amendment to the Bill? That could be important. My second question about the Ofgem inquiry is: is he willing to make sure that Ofgem is brought quickly up to date with this debate, so that it can take it into account in its study?

[Lord Marland]

The noble Lord makes a point. Of course Ofgem will be brought up to speed with what we are doing. I do not think that its review will have drawn the conclusions that we want by the time we have finished the Bill. There is some presupposing that people are sitting in knowledge. I have heard many different suggestions in this Room already today about how much we have or do not have in storage, and about what we should or should not have. It is up to the Government to look carefully at the facts and accelerate procedures where we think that should be done, as we have already done by 25 per cent—and we have been in government for only nine months; maybe a bit longer now. We have a level of comfort that is correct—not just in our own judgment; a whole range of sources tell us that we have it correct. The previous Government felt that it was the correct figure. If the information that results from the review shows us that we need to enact, we will. Ofgem itself has existing powers to modify licences and introduce new licence requirements, and may well do it itself. Of course this is very much a subject for debate, evaluation and continuing process, and I hope that satisfies the noble Lord.

Climate Change: Cancun

Debate between Lord Hannay of Chiswick and Lord Marland

Monday 13th December 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Marland]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend. I have always kept my expectations low throughout my life; it is a very good starting point for anything. Look where I am now—noble Lords might ask where.

My noble friend quite rightly asked three very valuable questions. I will, if I may, deal with forestry and deforestation first. The agreement was to map out the extent of forestry at the moment so that we had a baseline from which to start discussions in Durban and the period running up to it. It set a formula and a place to start from.

Secondly, even though I was not there, I understand that Bolivia did not agree to the target because its commitments and targets are much more aggressive. I understand that it is looking for no more than a 1 degree-Celsius increase in emissions, and I think it felt that it had a more aggressive timetable.

Thirdly, the verification system is a commitment from all 193 countries that subscribed to verification—so China is included in this—to set a framework and a platform over the four-year period and be transparent about the standards that they are setting in their own countries. The plan is to be able to verify every four years.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

My Lords, will the Minister accept congratulations on the Government’s input into this conference and on the way in which both the previous Government and this Government have refused to be discouraged by the outcome at Copenhagen? I think that that was admirable.

On verification, does the Minister not agree that if there is to be a legally binding agreement, which is, I think, the objective of many, it will be sustainable only if there is a proper international verification process? Will he say whether the European Union could take a lead in the months ahead in shaping up the sort of international verification process that will be necessary if business and the electorates are to have any confidence in this?

Secondly, will the Minister comment on the fact that the UN now seems to have broken out of the tyranny of consensus that enabled a very small number of spoilers very nearly to wreck the proceedings at Copenhagen, and that that lesson needs to be learnt and carried forward so that in future we do not allow a very small number of countries with possibly quite different interests to block the interests of the large majority?

[Lord Marland]

A legally binding agreement is very difficult to achieve, as we have seen from Copenhagen and Cancun. Do we, in reality, need a legally binding agreement? Are we not better just having an agreement under which we transparently announce the requirements for verification and for reporting, and for all those sorts of issues? If they are transparent, people can see what progress is being made. Of course, we would all like a legally binding agreement, but it is rather a big ask among the 193 countries, with their different laws.

One of the very valuable things about Cancun was how well team Europe did at the table, as opposed to at Copenhagen where it was viewed to have been marginalised. The European team’s endeavour was much greater at Cancun. As I said earlier, our own Secretary of State and officials who now lead team Europe were very much at the forefront of negotiations, and I know that they are determined to press for a tight strategy for these processes to come to fruition rather than just for general talking.

Climate Change: IPCC Leadership

Debate between Lord Hannay of Chiswick and Lord Marland

Monday 25th October 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Marland]

I thank my noble friend for her second question in this House. Both of them have been excellent on this particular subject. The fact is that we have to show leadership. I am glad to say that the Prime Minister will visit China next month. He will lead a UK-China summit on low carbon development, which will be a central pillar of the visit. The Secretary of State, Chris Huhne, will join him.

The USA has made commitments. We may or may not consider them adequate, but it has made a commitment to improve carbon reduction by 17 per cent on 2005 levels by 2020.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that practically all the criticism that has been levelled at the IPCC and other bodies supporting it has been about personalities and process but has not shaken the fundamental case? It would be much better if the critics concentrated on the fundamental case—if they can disprove it, which I do not believe they can—and laid off on the process and the personalities.

[Lord Marland]

The noble Lord makes a valid point, particularly as the previous chairman was hounded out by a similar approach. The fundamentals are what we are here to look at and I totally agree with him.

Energy: Belarus-Russia Gas Dispute

Debate between Lord Hannay of Chiswick and Lord Marland

Tuesday 29th June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Marland]

My noble friend and coalition colleague raises a very good question to which not many know the answer, but I will do my best under the circumstances. The issue of shale energy, for those who are interested, is well advanced in the US. It is generating a great deal of supply, but it does not have the same planning restrictions that we do here in Europe, so only limited exploration has been carried out. As yet there has been no establishment of financial viability, but this is happening apace. The benefit from this for the UK is that as a result the US is importing far less LNG, which makes it cheaper and more available for this country.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

Does the Minister not feel that he is being a little overconfident about Britain’s position in all this, given that our capacity for gas storage is very low compared with a lot of other member states in the European Union? What are the Government doing to encourage more gas storage in the UK, which is surely one of the key elements in dealing with any interruption of supply?

[Lord Marland]

The noble Lord asks a good question. The reality is that we currently have eight days’ gas storage—more than we have had for a very long time, and after depletion from a cold winter. We have to establish security of supply. As I said earlier, 65 per cent of the gas we need comes from our own shores; 20 per cent from Norway, which we believe is a friendly source; and 15 per cent from other countries throughout the world. Having reviewed this, we feel confident that we can sustain the supply required.