Brexit

Lord Hamilton of Epsom Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, I am glad to have listened to the noble Lord, Lord Judd, and I thought for one brief moment that I was going to actually agree with him on something, because he said he had growing reservations about our unwritten constitution—but then that took him off to saying there should be a second referendum. I do not quite follow that one.

I will talk about the judgment of the Supreme Court and the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Hale, which is remarkable on two counts. The first is that it was unanimous. All 11 judges on the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, when we all know that the judiciary is totally divided on this issue. Does this not raise slight questions in people’s minds as to how they came to a unanimous conclusion when the previous court, the Divisional Court, had voted the other way? They overturned the verdict of the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales and the Master of the Rolls. Was it not rather strange that they should reach a unanimous verdict when so many other very distinguished judges across the country had decided the other way?

[Lord McNally]

What is the noble Lord implying? He should not just put a question mark up. The clue as to why there is a difference is in the name “Supreme Court”. Why does the noble Lord think all 11 came to the same conclusion? By raising it, he is implying that there must have been some collusion or malfunction. Why ask the question without giving us an answer?

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom]

Because I do not know what went on in the previous discussions of the Supreme Court; I was not there. All I am saying is that it is very strange that the conclusion the court came to was completely unanimous. This is very odd.

[Lord Goldsmith]

Perhaps I could help the noble Lord. The Supreme Court judges said they were all of the opinion that parliamentary sovereignty was what was at stake. As they made very clear, they were not taking a decision for or against Brexit. They were talking simply about the role of Parliament, and how wrong it therefore was for the Prime Minister to stop Parliament sitting. I do not see any difficulty at all in seeing why they all took that opinion. I entirely agree with the noble Lord, Lord McNally. To suggest something improper about our Supreme Court, as the noble Lord was, is absolutely inconsistent with the rule of law and the role we should take.

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom]

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, is putting words in my mouth. I did not say anything improper. I just said that, considering the judiciary is completely divided on this issue, it was remarkable that all 11 members of the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion. The issue at heart was whether the business of proroguing Parliament was judiciary. The previous court had said it was not judiciary and the Supreme Court said it was. What has actually happened—

[Lord Wallace of Tankerness]

Will the noble Lord give way?

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom]

No. I have given way to so many people, and we are always being told that we cannot go beyond six minutes.

As everybody will know, the judgment of the Supreme Court alluded to the fact that a number of judgments had been made that had political connotations. This is a step much further: the Supreme Court making a political decision. What has the judgment that we could not prorogue Parliament actually resulted in? We have sat for another eight days while we go over all the old ground. One of the reasons we are where we are now is that Parliament is incapable of reaching any conclusion on what it should actually do about leaving the EU. Have we advanced any further by the fact that we have sat for longer? No, we have not. Have the Government been held to account? Well, on the margin, I suppose. Has it really made any difference to anything? No, it has not—for the simple reason that nothing is actually going to happen until the EU Council meets on 17-18 October. After that, of course, it will be decided whether the proposals we have put forward are acceptable, whether there is a deal to be put to Parliament and so forth. It is after the Queen’s Speech that the Government will have to be held to account, and very little has been achieved by Parliament sitting over all these extra days.

The real problem is that if the Supreme Court says, “We’re going to get into the business of not just interpreting but actually making the law, and we’re going to make political decisions when we do that”, as sure as night follows day, Parliament will say, “If the judges are going to make these political decisions, they must be appointed by Parliament”. That is what will happen if we go on down this road. What will happen? A Select Committee in the House of Commons will interview candidates for the Supreme Court. It will ask them about their political views: which way they voted in the last election, what their views are on social matters such as—

[Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames]

My Lords—

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom]

No, I am not going to give way any more. I have given way endless times, and it does not seem to be taken into account when I am gone after.

That is what will happen. They will be asked about all these things, and we will move over to an American system whereby when there is a Conservative Administration a lot of conservative judges will be appointed, and when there is a Labour Administration a lot of socialists will be appointed. Is that what we want? No, it certainly is not. We do not admire the American system of having politicised judges and a politicised Supreme Court. It would be a very retrograde step.

I am not taking any notice of my noble friend on the Front Bench. I have had so many interventions that I will have to speak a little longer. We are between a rock and a hard place. If we have a written constitution, we will have to completely review the role of the Commons versus the Lords and the relative powers of the two Chambers. We will have to look at the Commons versus the Executive and the role of the Speaker. We will have to look at the judiciary as well. I was rather hoping that the noble Lord, Lord Judd, would reach the conclusion that we should move from an unwritten constitution to a written one. That is the only way that we will save the institutions of this country. Too many people are trying to push the boundaries of a system that has built up over the years and we are now moving into very dangerous territory indeed.