Sewel Convention

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Greenhalgh

Monday 13th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I always appreciate the breadth of questions you can get on a Question that concerns the Sewel convention. I am not aware that we use something similar to that EU measurement, but I note that the EU has its own approach to the funding formula.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

With respect to the Minister, there is a massive gap between his warm words on this matter and the views of Welsh Ministers in the Senedd about his Government’s stance, which is continuously undermining the Welsh Government—and I guess other Governments—over the devolution settlement by not properly consulting them and not making the term “consent” real, because they do not wish to consent to a lot of government legislation. I do not think that the inter-governmental machinery is working properly, either. It should be chaired by the Prime Minister, who should listen to Welsh Ministers and the First Minister properly instead of treating them with derision.

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

I do not recognise that the Sewel convention is as broken down as that, in the sense that 47 legislative consent Motions for 23 Acts in the first Session and 28 legislative consent Motions in the second Session were secured and passed by the devolved legislatures. This is new machinery that obviously takes time to bed in, but I know that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has met on countless occasions—there have been 440 ministerial meetings—and the Prime Minister has met four times with the First Minister of Scotland and the Welsh leader, so those meetings are taking place. I ask noble Lords to give this machinery a chance.

Shared Prosperity Fund

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Greenhalgh

Thursday 24th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

We are getting some mixed messages from the House. On one hand we have that desire to see that we empower regions and functional economic areas through councils, but we do recognise that it is important to have proper engagement and collaboration with the Welsh Government. Indeed, at official level and also through the Welsh Local Government Association, that continues to happen, as it does at the level of the Secretary of State, who had a meeting, in the levelling up and housing committee, with the Welsh Local Government Association and local authority leaders. I believe that Minister O’Brien also met ministerial counterparts yesterday. So, yes, we must continue to build on collaboration, and I just caution against the idea that we should model into the future and say that there is a gap. We want to make sure that we repair the public finances, post pandemic, so that every part of this great country gets the investment it needs to prosper.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, although I suppose I could thank the Minister for his warm words about Wales, the truth is, as my noble friend Lady Wilcox pointed out, that Wales is being consistently short-changed post Brexit, and we are seeing power grabs as well from Westminster, such as in the Subsidy Control Bill, which has been described as having a “pernicious effect on devolution” by the Senedd committee responsible. Surely the Government should start talking directly and understanding that devolution is going to work only if Whitehall respects it, both in funding terms and in terms of powers—and it is not doing so at the moment.

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

That is essentially more of a comment than a question, but there is a real respect for both the Welsh Government and local leaders in Wales. We continue to work very productively, certainly at ministerial level and also through officials. We want to see a strong Wales—I would like to see a stronger Welsh rugby team, frankly, after the result against Italy.

Minister for Intergovernmental Relations

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Greenhalgh

Monday 18th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for wanting that clarity. Day-to-day responsibility for constitutional integrity falls to the Minister for Intergovernmental Relations. Individual Secretaries of State also have a critical role in representing the distinctive voices and interests of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in Whitehall and the Cabinet; in representing the UK Government in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland; and in co-ordinating the UK Government’s work with the devolved Governments to deliver for all citizens of the United Kingdom.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that there will be a strong UK union only if each of our constituent nations, regions and Governments has a relationship of equals, which, regrettably, has not been the case under this Government? Their high-handed arrogance over the internal market Act and the shared prosperity fund are just two examples. Will the Minister guarantee parity of esteem in the Joint Ministerial Committee, through shared chairing and agenda setting, an impartial secretariat and improved dispute avoidance and resolution?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I do not recognise that characterisation; there is huge esteem for the devolved Governments. We need to recognise that our United Kingdom is the most successful political and economic union that the world has ever seen, and we continue to build on its strengths.

Wales: Replacement Funding

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Greenhalgh

Wednesday 3rd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, again, we need to see the publication of the investment framework but I can commit to saying that the overall envelope of funding will be at least the amount that we receive from EU structural funds of around £1.5 billion per year.

[Lord Hain (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, can the Minister confirm that, far from increasing funding through the Barnett formula to devolved Governments as was promised, money is being spent on priorities set in Whitehall, not Cardiff; that official-level meetings have involved no sharing of any information about Whitehall’s plans for the pilot shared prosperity fund in Wales; and that Welsh Ministers have not had a single ministerial-level meeting on this subject since the Government took office? Is this not yet another London power grab and betrayal of devolution?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, we need to recognise the improvements of moving away from EU structural funds. This will allow for quicker delivery of funding, better targeting and better alignment with domestic priorities and will certainly be less bureaucratic and burdensome than the current EU structural funds arrangements.

Housing: Leasehold

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Greenhalgh

Tuesday 5th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I will not make such a statement today in the House but a statement will be made very shortly. Community land trusts are a separate policy matter. I agree with the noble Baroness that community land trusts are a way forward—not always the right way but one way to use land for the benefit of a particular community.

[Lord Hain (Lab) [V]]

What does the Minister’s commitment to carry out reforms “as soon as possible” mean in time terms, and will the Government end the current system of ridiculously expensive lease extensions, escalating ground rents and absurd service charges?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, there is no doubt that you need to turn to lawyers to know how long it will take to turn these things round quickly. We need primary legislation. I have been told by Professor Hopkins, who was in charge of the Law Commission work, that the preparations to get primary legislation ready for consideration by noble Lords will take approximately one year, so we are probably talking about the third Session.