Electricity: Cost-competitiveness

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Thursday 16th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I am happy to acknowledge the noble Baroness’s point, but, if she is attempting to say that other forms of generation—gas-fired power plants, nuclear power plants or whatever—do not have many of those materials, she would be wrong.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned China. Why are some of the offshore wind farm components, especially the huge structures and blades, being manufactured in China rather than in Britain?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an important point. Actually, relatively few components are manufactured in China, although some are. Many of them are manufactured in other parts of Europe, and increasingly many are manufactured in the UK. If the noble Lord had been in the Grand Committee earlier this week, he would have heard us debate a new regulation designed precisely to overcome that problem. This is to make sure that there are extra payments to some of the developers to make sure that we locate more of the supply chains in the UK, because we want to see the benefits spread throughout the country, particularly Wales and northern parts of the UK, which already have many of these supply chain companies. We need to become increasingly successful at that. The rest of the world is proceeding to copy us and develop offshore wind, so there are massive export opportunities if we can locate those supply chains in the UK.

Renewable Energy: Generation Licences

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 13th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Tidal power is an interesting technology. A number of schemes are being rolled out. For the first time ever, in the last CfD round a number of schemes were awarded licences. We need to continue supporting and developing it, but we must not run away with the idea that this will be a long-term, sustainable solution for large amounts of power. At the moment, it is on a relatively small scale. We need to continue supporting it, and we will.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, the biggest tidal power project is, of course, the Severn barrage. Will the Minister receive a delegation to brief him on the potential for that? It is equivalent to two nuclear power stations, and it is lunar, and therefore generates predictable baseload energy. Frankly, it is a no-brainer.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I understand the point the noble Lord makes. A Severn barrage scheme has been talked about since I was an electrical engineering student, way back in the 1980s; it is not a new scheme. It all comes down to the cost and the environmental damage that would result from implementing it. We continue to keep all these things under review. I assure the noble Lord that both I and the department know all about the details of the scheme.

Employment Rights

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 19th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

That study is still going on, and I am sure we will let the noble Baroness know as soon as we have a conclusive statement to make on it.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister see any contradiction between cheering key workers during the pandemic and then condemning them when they strike to get the decent pay rise they have been denied for many years?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I do not see any contradiction. This is about getting a balance between those workers who have the right to go on strike and all those other workers who have the right to go to their hospital appointments, take their exams and go to their place of employment.

Lithium Ion Batteries: Fire Safety Standards

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Thursday 3rd March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate makes an important point but, of course, better than disposing of the batteries would be to recycle them. A number of technologies exist to enable batteries to be reused, recycled and repurposed. There are a number of instances of electric car batteries being reused as portable electricity storage devices in the home.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, what incentives are the Government offering to householders with solar PV panels to install batteries so that they can become more self-sufficient in their electricity generation, including charging their electric cars where that is possible?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

It is an important point. We offer an attractive tariff for consumers who generate their own electricity to export to the grid but, as that tariff is lower than that for which they would have to buy the electricity themselves, there is an incentive, if possible, to store it and reuse it. As we get more EVs, we will see their increasing use as storage devices, and companies will start to offer an attractive tariff to enable electricity to be released from those at times of busy demand.

Post Brexit: Small Service Businesses

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Monday 24th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hain (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, already hit by Brexit and Covid, small businesses have suffered a decline in their post-Brexit exports because of increased paperwork and shipment delays. The Federation of Small Businesses found that by the end of March, almost a quarter had suspended sales to Europe. Some companies have given up on trade with the EU or Northern Ireland altogether. Can the Government urgently use the provisions of the trade and co-operation agreement to ease post-Brexit burdens on small businesses?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Of course; we are more than interested and keen to ease burdens as much as possible. It requires a willing partner on the EU side to engage in constructive discussions, but we will continue attempting that.

Post Office Update

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Monday 24th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I assure the noble Baroness that I am not trying to hide behind anything. I totally accept that the Government need to accept their share of responsibility, as do the Post Office management and Fujitsu, but all these matters will be brought out. That is what the inquiry is for: to determine what went wrong, what lessons can be learned and who was responsible. So we need to wait for that inquiry. But as I have said, we want to ensure that the compensation process proceeds as swiftly as possible.

[Lord Hain (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I am sorry but the Minister’s answers on compensation are simply not good enough. Surely the Government must fully admit to their own culpability? Throughout the shabby and shameful persecution of innocent sub-postmasters, the Permanent Secretary in the department was the Post Office’s accounting officer and a government representative sat on its board. It is no good just passing the buck. The Treasury must fully fund an extremely generous compensation scheme to atone for a criminally negligent failure of ministerial and Permanent Secretary responsibility.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am not trying to pass the buck to anybody; I have accepted all the responsibility that falls on my department and on Ministers present and previous. The inquiry will draw all these facts out in due course. I say to noble Lords that it is for the Post Office to continue with this process. The Government will accept their share of responsibility when it comes to that, but we need the Post Office to get on with it and we want it to do so as soon as possible.

Post Office: Horizon Accounting System

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Monday 7th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The review is non-statutory, but the Post Office, Fujitsu and the Government have all committed to co-operate as fully as possible with the review. The chair will, of course, be fully independent of both the Post Office and Government, and will draw conclusions and recommendations as they see fit.

[Lord Hain (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, we all know that sub-postmasters are the pillars of local communities, and yet they have suffered by being compensated for an insultingly small proportion of the losses they incurred through this terrible scandal and the cruel unfairness that followed. The Minister says that he does not want to interfere, but the Government are 100% owner of the Post Office—the Permanent Secretary of the department is its accounting officer and there is government representation on the board. The Government are ultimately responsible for this scandal. It is not good enough to keep delaying this with lots of process and reviews. They must be compensated fully.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The court case resulted in a substantial award of compensation and the Post Office has a separate historical shortfall scheme, which it is looking at and progressing. We want to get on with this as quickly as possible. I agree with all the comments which have been made. This is an appalling scandal: it has originated over many years and we are doing what we can to try to get to the bottom of it.

Competition and Markets Authority

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Thursday 25th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hain (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, surely the noble Lord, Lord Tyrie, standing down is a devastating indictment of the unwillingness of Tory Ministers to permit him to do his job properly, as well as the Government’s subservience to vast vested interests and the immense power of digital platforms at the expense of customers and competition. The Covid pandemic means that there will be lots of business casualties, allowing national and especially local monopolies to trample over customers. I am sorry, but the Minister is not coming clean with us; the noble Lord, Lord Tyrie, is both honourable and highly capable: will he tell us straight, please, why Ministers have been so shamefully subservient to tycoons, plutocrats and dodgy dealers that he, an eminent fellow Tory, has been forced to resign from a job he wanted to do properly?

[Lord Callanan]

Well, characteristically the noble Lord has a great grasp of hyperbole, but I do not think that he is fairly characterising the situation here. It is a complicated area of detailed policy. We have an excellent competition regime in this country, the CMA is a highly regarded regulator and, as I said, we will consider giving it additional powers to protect consumer and business interests if that is required.

Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 28th April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The Government’s Chief Scientific Adviser is confident that the role of SAGE is clear, that the business is conducted in an appropriately transparent and open manner, that the group is scientifically rigorous —having, as I said, more than 100 scientists ultimately feeding into it—and that it is totally independent of political interference.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

Is the Minister aware of the criticism of SAGE’s composition from Professor Anthony Costello, a former director of WHO? As he points out, it does not include front-line experts on the pandemic, such as those in public health, primary care and intensive care. If it had done, maybe SAGE would have recommended to the Government community testing and contact tracing of the kind that has been very successful in other countries and that we simply have not implemented either on the scale needed or early enough.

[Lord Callanan]

The committee includes many of the experts in all those fields. They are brought in, as recommended by the Chief Scientific Adviser, when their expertise in particular fields is required. There is a large, centrally held list of experts in all the appropriate fields. Of course, SAGE meets on other issues than Covid. On the advice of the Chief Medical Officer and the Chief Scientific Adviser, the appropriate experts are brought in to advise the Government when that is required.

Sub-postmasters: Compensation

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Thursday 5th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

My noble friend is absolutely correct and I agree with what he says. There were a number of tragedies and some people committed suicide as a result. There is no question but that the Post Office management at the time behaved disgracefully but none of them is now in post. It is very important that we get on with these matters as quickly as possible. Some of them are subject to the judicial process, which my noble friend will know I cannot comment on, but I hope that there will be a resolution as soon as possible for these sad, unfortunate individuals.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

What lessons have the Government drawn from this? This is a public corporation that has acted in an authoritarian way to trash the reputations of pillars of the community—people who are respected in the local community. There must be some lessons to be drawn by the Government. What are they?

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord is entirely right: a number of lessons need to be drawn. The Post Office is an independent company where the shareholding is owned 100% by the Government, and we appoint an independent director to the board. During the unfolding of this scandal, BEIS officials were clearly misled by the Post Office and the information provided was not correct. We are looking at a new governance framework to address these matters going forward and, again, an announcement on that will be made in due course.

Brexit: Preparations

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

One of the challenges of Brexit is internal security. We have done a huge amount of work on that behind the scenes. It is disappointing that the EU seems to be refusing to discuss many of those points with us, but we are, the noble Lord can be assured, putting in place all the appropriate mitigations so that we can still get access to much of this information.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

I echo the implication of the question from the noble Lord, Lord Bridges. Will the Minister confirm that no deal in respect of the Irish border will require direct rule, so that the necessary civil contingency arrangements can be put in place? There is no question that that is so, and I would be grateful if he confirmed it. Can the Minister also explain why he said one thing to your Lordships—it was also said by the Minister in the other place—on the question of a deal, while a No. 10 source is quoted in the Guardian online, just an hour ago, as my noble friend Lady Hayter indicated, following conversations with Chancellor Merkel and other leaders, including in Dublin, that a deal looks,

“essentially impossible, not just now but ever”?

[Lord Callanan]

With respect to the noble Lord’s first question, I will not go further than the answer I gave to the noble Lord, Lord Bridges. I take the point made by the noble Lords, but when we have announcements to make on such matters, we will do so in due course. I will not comment on off-the-record sources in the Guardian.

Brexit

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Wednesday 2nd October 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the Motion before us today asks the House to once again consider the UK’s withdrawal from the EU—which will take place on 31 October, with or without a deal. Of course, this House and its committees have been considering this topic with great scrutiny and interest ever since the 2016 referendum. I pay tribute to the stamina and continued focus of noble Lords in fulfilling this vital constitutional role.

The Government are committed to delivering on this instruction from the British people without any further pointless delay. The outcome that we want, and have always wanted, is a deal with the European Union—but if we cannot agree a new deal, we will have to leave without one.

I must commend noble Lords, including the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, on their excellent timing in scheduling this debate today; events are indeed unfolding fairly rapidly as we speak. I first highlight to noble Lords that, a short while ago, we published details of the Government’s proposals for alternatives to the backstop. A copy of the Written Ministerial Statement and supporting documentation is now available for noble Lords to collect from the Printed Paper Office.

I recognise, of course, that noble Lords would like to take time to review and consider the content of the WMS and documents, the details of which I will set out in a moment. Before I do that, I reassure noble Lords by confirming that they will have the opportunity to discuss this further in a Statement tomorrow.

This Government have made considerable progress in their negotiations with the EU. We have been working hard to negotiate changes to the withdrawal agreement and political declaration. The Prime Minister has been clear on the nature of these changes. We are unconditionally committed to finding a solution for the north/south border which protects the Belfast agreement, the commitments of which can best be met if we explore solutions other than the backstop. The backstop risks—

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

Will the noble Lord confirm, in the light of the Prime Minister’s speech earlier today and the proposals that have just been published, that effectively the Government are saying, “We won’t impose border controls of a customs check character at or near the border, but since that border is the external customs union frontier of the European Union and the Republic of Ireland, it is up to them to do it”? Is that not a despicable, pass-the-parcel, grubby approach to all this?

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord makes his point in his normal forthright manner. If he has a little patience, I will come to the details of our proposals in a little while.

The backstop risks weakening the delicate balance embodied in the Belfast agreement between both major traditions in Northern Ireland, grounded in agreement, consent and respect for minority rights. Removing control of areas of the commercial and economic life of Northern Ireland to an external body over which the people of Northern Ireland have no control risks undermining that balance. Any deal ahead of Brexit on 31 October must avoid the whole of the UK or just Northern Ireland being trapped in an arrangement where they are a rule taker.

These discussions with the Commission and EU leaders have intensified, with regular sessions taking place over a number of weeks. The Prime Minister’s EU sherpa, David Frost, has continued to lead a cross-party team for these detailed discussions with the Commission’s Taskforce 50, in line with the Prime Minister and President of the European Commission’s agreement to intensify the pace of discussions. Within the last couple of hours in Brussels, he has delivered to the EU the UK’s proposals on a replacement to the backstop. These are the proposals which we have laid in Parliament today.

I know that your Lordships will probably not have had the time or opportunity to read the document published a short while ago. I will therefore set out the main points of the Prime Minister’s offer to the EU. First, this proposal is based above all on our commitment to find solutions which are compatible with the Belfast agreement, the fundamental basis for governance in Northern Ireland.

Secondly, it confirms our commitment to long-standing areas of UK-Ireland collaboration: the common travel area; the rights of all those living in Northern Ireland; and north/south co-operation.

Thirdly, the proposal provides for the creation of an all-island regulatory zone on the island of Ireland, covering all goods and eliminating regulatory checks for trade in goods between Northern Ireland and Ireland.

Fourthly, and unlike the backstop, this regulatory zone will be dependent on the consent of those affected by it. This is essential to the acceptability of arrangements under which part of the UK accepts the rules of a different political entity. In our view, it is fundamental to democracy. The Government therefore propose that the continuation of the regulatory zone after the transition period will be subject to the principle of consent of the people of Northern Ireland.

Fifthly, the proposal ensures that Northern Ireland will be fully part of the UK customs territory, not the EU customs territory, after the end of the transition period. It has always been a fundamental point for this Government that the UK will leave the EU customs union at the end of the transition period, since control of trade policy is fundamental to this country’s future prosperity.

Finally, in order to support Northern Ireland through our withdrawal from the EU, and in collaboration with others with an interest, this Government propose a new deal for Northern Ireland, with appropriate commitments to help boost economic growth and Northern Ireland’s competitiveness, and to support infrastructure projects, particularly with a cross-border focus. Taken together, these proposals respect the decision taken by the people of the UK to leave the EU while dealing pragmatically with that decision’s consequences in Northern Ireland and in Ireland. Together, we believe that these will allow us to reach agreement with the EU under Article 50 and to leave the EU with a deal that both respects the referendum result and provides a strong platform for our future relationship.

As I am sure noble Lords will agree, leaving the EU with a deal on 31 October is the preferable outcome. However, we have stepped up preparations across government and will be fully ready for Brexit on 31 October whatever the circumstances. As the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster made clear in his Statements to the other place, and as I repeated in this House last month on 3 September and again on 25 September, we have indeed ramped up our no-deal preparations. The Government are committed to prioritising stability for citizens, consumers, businesses and the economy. I know that many noble Lords have previously raised the important issue of citizens’ rights. I yet again reassure noble Lords that this Government are clear that citizens’ rights will never be used as a bargaining chip. That is why the Prime Minister has provided an unequivocal guarantee to the more than 3 million EU citizens living and working in the UK that they can have absolute certainty of the right to live and remain in the UK whether we leave with or without a deal. Under the EU settlement scheme, over 1.5 million EU citizens have secured their future in the UK, and the Home Office continues to process up to 20,000 applications per day.

As well as the smooth flow of people from the UK into the EU and vice versa, our economic priorities include ensuring the continued flow of goods. The Government have committed to a number of steps in order to do this. For example, we have committed to introducing temporary easements for traders and hauliers to smooth the transition to new controls; and to maintain continuity of trade, we have signed or agreed in principle 15 trade continuity agreements to date, covering 45 countries and accounting for 72% of the trade for which we are seeking continuity in a no-deal Brexit. The work that we are taking forward will ensure that businesses are ready for exit.

The precise impacts of a no-deal Brexit are of course difficult to predict but we have taken steps to define the potential impact and develop reasonable worst-case planning assumptions upon which we can build our contingency plans. Operation Yellowhammer is the cross-government programme of work to ensure that the Government are prepared to mitigate the potential impacts of Brexit in the event that the UK leaves without a deal.

The Government are ready for and committed to withdrawal from the EU, with or without a deal, on 31 October and without further pointless delay. We have ramped up all our preparations to deliver that. This Government are clear that people want to see Brexit delivered by 31 October, and we are determined to deliver on their wishes. I beg to move.

European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 6) Bill

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 5th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hain]

Will the Minister agree with his government colleague the Cabinet Minister Nicky Morgan, who indicated on BBC Radio 4’s “World at One” at lunchtime that if the Prime Minister gets his way, there is a mid-October election and he wins it, he will repeal the Bill or activate the clause within it to ensure that no deal occurs?

[Lord Callanan]

It is difficult for me to comment on an interview that I have not heard. I am sure the noble Lord is quoting her words accurately but, if he will forgive me, I will not comment on that precisely until I have seen the details of what Nicky Morgan actually said. We are commenting on a Bill that has not been passed through this House or completed its final stages in the other House. I repeat that the Government will of course abide by the law. I certainly cannot predict what might happen in a future general election, nor can I comment on what a future Government might do with the Bill in response to that.

EU: Law-making Process

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Monday 1st July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I will not comment on the last part of my noble friend’s statement, but of course I think that knowledge of the internal or single market, the European Economic Area and free trade agreements is always useful for Members of Parliament, as well as for members of the public.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, among others, that when there are votes in meetings of the Council of Ministers—most decisions are taken by consensus—in 95% of those votes Britain has won our position? That is an acknowledged and widely reported fact.

[Lord Callanan]

The interesting thing about the EU system is that there is some truth in what both noble Lords have said. There are rarely votes in the Council. In the General Affairs Council, on which I sit, there are hardly any votes but that is because compromises are arrived at. Countries accept that they will not get all that they want so, at the same time they can argue that they have been part of the winning side because some part of their position might have been incorporated into the final agreement. That, again, is one of the complexities of the system.

Brexit: Negotiations

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Thursday 24th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I am not sure I want to give from the Dispatch Box advice to Wetherspoons on its purchasing policies. I hope it will continue to serve its customers well, and I hope it will continue to make a profit. I say to my noble friend that no deal is not our preferred outcome, but as I said earlier it is the legal default. The best way to avoid no deal is to vote for a deal.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister really think that cheap brandy from Australia is better than French brandy? While he is at it, does he agree that,

“free trade under the World Trade Organisation”,

as proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, would mean a hard border on the island of Ireland under WTO rules and under EU rules?

Brexit: Legislative Timetable

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Monday 7th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I do not have those figures in front of me. I will write to the noble Lord on that.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, can the Minister answer the specific question put by my noble friend Lord Bassam about there being no emergency legislation before 29 March? Can he confirm that the forthcoming Trade Bill, due in this House shortly, could be the last legislative vehicle to accept an amendment to rule out no deal?

[Lord Callanan]

As I said in the earlier answer, the progress of legislation in this House is a matter for the usual channels, in which co-operation with the opposition parties is always ongoing. I am sure the Chief Whip will want to continue that. As for ruling out no deal, no deal is what happens if you do not have a deal. We will leave the EU on 29 March this year because that is the legislation that Parliament has passed on two occasions, and it is what Article 50 says. There is a mechanism to avoid no deal, and that is to vote for the only deal available.

[Lord Hain]

My Lords, I did not ask that question. I asked whether the Trade Bill is the last legislative vehicle to rule out no deal.

[Lord Callanan]

I will not advise the noble Lord and others what amendments can be acceptable. That is not my role. There are a number of pieces of primary legislation still before this House and, if we are in a no-deal situation, further pieces of primary legislation will be forthcoming.

Brexit: European Commission Discussions

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Monday 9th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

We have been very clear that we are leaving the single market, we are leaving the customs union, and we want to set up a UK-EU free trade area based on the principles set out in the Chequers agreement.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, I compliment the Minister on keeping upstanding and reciting his lines repetitively, as that may be the best way in which to keep him standing. May I ask his advice on the Irish border? Will he accept that it is not simply physical security obstructions that cannot be implemented, but the things that lie behind those—the common standards, the regulatory equivalence, the phytosanitary standards in respect of food and agriculture movement, and all of that? That is what I think the Prime Minister was trying to get at when she came up with her proposal on Friday. Does the Minister accept that that is what has to be dealt with to keep an open Irish border? And what about services? I did not see much about that in the Cabinet agreement, and a lot of services cross the Irish border.

[Lord Callanan]

Of course, we share the noble Lord’s desire to avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland, and take on board many of the points that he makes. What is innovative about the Chequers proposal is that it delivers precisely that: it enables the UK to maintain our own tariff schedules, but also avoids the imposition of a hard border in Ireland between Northern Ireland and southern Ireland. We look forward to discussing those proposals with the Irish Government and the European Commission.

Brexit: Reports to Parliament

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Monday 8th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

We will want to do both things. We want of course to plan for the—hopefully small—likelihood of there being no deal, but we also want a unified government position going forward. The Brexit Bill will shortly arrive in this House and I am sure we will have many hours of debate on the important issues contained in it. I am sure the noble Baroness will make lots of contributions to that.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, given that the Government were forced to accept regulatory alignment in December to resolve the impasse on the Northern Ireland border and to keep it open, which everybody says they want, how does that differ from staying in the single market, and is that possible unless membership of the single market is retained?

[Lord Callanan]

It is perfectly possible and we have made statements to that effect. We are leaving the customs union and the single market. At the moment, of course, our regulations are identical to those of the European Union. In the future we will need to manage the process of divergence if we want to go our own separate way. Those issues will need to be discussed fully.

Brexit: Irish Border

Debate between Lord Hain and Lord Callanan

Tuesday 5th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I congratulate the noble Lord on having the foresight to get a Question on this on the Order Paper for today. He will be unsurprised to know that I do not agree with him. There was a referendum on the subject. We feel we have to respect the results of that referendum.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, why was anybody surprised by yesterday’s negotiating car crash in Brussels? Unionists were quite legitimately always going to insist that they could not be put in a status distinct from the rest of the UK. At the same time, to maintain the Irish border as open as it has been alignment would be needed on trade, customs and regulation. Surely the answer is to apply that alignment across the UK, then the problem is solved.

[Lord Callanan]

As the noble Lord is aware, we are leaving the customs union and the single market. Northern Ireland will be leaving them with us.