Hereditary Peers By-election

Debate between Lord Grocott and Lord Mancroft

Wednesday 19th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

They are getting older, as my noble friend says. We have had 16 by-elections in the 16 months—by coincidence, it is 16 months—since by-elections resumed after the suspension during the period of Covid, so we have had 16 new Members: two Labour; two Cross Bench; and 12 Conservatives. Nine of the 12 Conservatives were elected by this privileged circle of Conservative hereditary Peers, so nine selected by 43: again, the stats are pretty good if you are a hereditary and a Conservative. I can mark a landmark, which some may celebrate but I have to admit that I do not, that with the two elected today, there have now been 50 Peers elected via the by-election system since it began in 1999.

It is interesting that, as we all know, this was introduced as a temporary measure—we have had 50—and now the next generation is moving on. Peers who came in at a by-election are retiring and now causing another by-election, so we are having by-elections for by-elections in something that was intended to be a temporary phenomenon.

As the House knows, I am afraid the Government have always refused to make any changes. But I am an optimist. There is a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel. We have heard from the Prime Minister repeatedly this week that she is a listening Prime Minister. I wonder whether she will listen to the overwhelming majority of noble Lords in this House, who have said on every test we have had that these by-elections could cease. It might be a U-turn, but these things happen. It would be terrific if the Prime Minister listened to us and ended these ridiculous by-elections once and for all.

[Lord Mancroft (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, rightly points out, this is a very strange way of selecting people. That is because it was designed by the Labour Party when it was in government. A sensible party would have come up with something different. However, the two candidates we have elected today are of a very much higher calibre than many of the candidates appointed over the last few years. More importantly, neither of them has abused parliamentary privilege to interfere with the system of prosecution in this country or disgracefully used their position to destroy and attack the reputations of three very honourable public servants, including my late friend Lord Brittan and the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall. They would never have dreamed of doing that. That in itself has destroyed any possibility of having an appointed House in future.

House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) (Abolition of By-Elections) Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Grocott and Lord Mancroft

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 13th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Grocott]

My Lords, I have to say that I do not think the second speech of the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, was an improvement on his first. He should read the speech—he could not have been listening very carefully—of his noble friend Lord Mancroft, who made precisely the point about the particular skills and insights of hereditary Peers that are denied to the rest of us.

[Lord Mancroft]

My Lords, I was not making that point. I made no points about the prominence of the hereditary peerage and I echo the comments of my noble friend Lord Strathclyde. This debate is not about the hereditary peerage at all; it is about the future of this House, with or without hereditary Peers. The noble Lord, Lord Grocott, who has a very good case to make, damages his case by making remarks like that.

[Lord Grocott]

My Lords, the people who have been damaging their case are all the hereditary Peers—with the exception of the noble Earl, Lord Howe—who made contributions today. They have been particularly depressing in their unanimity, but they are also unrepresentative of the rest of the hereditary Peers, who are not here, because, as I said, there are many who wished this Bill well for the future.

We heard from nine hereditaries: Messrs Strathclyde, Trefgarne, Caithness, Trenchard, Reay, Mancroft, Glenarthur, Astor and Northbrook. I mention their names because they failed to do what the Companion requires, which is to declare an express, clear interest. Time is short, but I am being persuaded that I really ought to read out the extract from the document itself, the text to which we all adhere. The section headed “Rules of Conduct” on page 65 states:

“In order to assist in openness and accountability, Members shall … declare when speaking in the House or communicating with ministers or public servants any interest which is a relevant interest in the context of the debate or the matter under discussion.”


That is game, set, match and tournament. According to the rules of this House, they should have declared their interest.