Energy Bill

Lord Grantchester Excerpts

Tuesday 19th November 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Grantchester (Lab)]

My Lords, after much debate in Committee and on Report we also welcome this further government amendment in response to the 11th report of your Lordships’ Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, which was published at the end of October. It is indeed important that no blanket powers or consents should be given for making particular categories of rules.

Amendment 3 agreed.

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[Viscount Ridley]

My Lords, as someone who spoke in favour of the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, on Report, I, too, welcome this amendment and think that it goes in exactly the right direction. I particularly welcome the emphasis on voluntary reporting, which will result in a much more flexible and effective way of finding out exactly what these costs are, and where they are, than if we tried to micromanage it by specifying the details ourselves as hopeless legislators rather than people who know how these things are done.

[Lord Grantchester]

From these Benches, I am happy to endorse the spirit of the amendments in the interests of consumers and providing them with more information on their bills. These amendments seem more neutral than those proposed on Report in that they do not seek in the Bill to mandate energy suppliers to highlight certain designated costs. The amendments thereby avoid the claim that they are targeting so-called green levies on behalf of one strident viewpoint. I listened carefully to the Minister’s words in proposing these amendments and, like the noble Baroness, Lady Maddock, I am not sure that I picked up entirely how the Minister expected costs to be broken down to include the social costs. Can she clarify that in her reply? The impact of different costs, especially the so-called green or environmental costs, should be balanced and it is important how that is portrayed to consumers.

We welcome the consultation that this will enable so that all views can be expressed prior to the introduction of regulations—if any are introduced. However, we are concerned that the transparency of the whole market needs to be enhanced, not simply transparency with respect to the costs of energy supply companies. I refer here to generating costs and transfer pricing within each of the big six power companies, which can make big margins on their generation that would not then show up as the Government may intend.

We remain concerned that these clauses do not go anywhere near far enough. From these Benches, we contend that without proper reform of the market, the data available at any later date are likely to be of severely limited use. At this stage, we are content with the amendments but regard them as highly immaterial to the overall transparency of the market.

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to all noble Lords for, by and large, their support for my amendments. I will quickly respond to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester and to my noble friend Lady Maddock about transparency. The Government and Ofgem both agree that it is important that suppliers are transparent about their costs, including the costs of complying with government environmental and social programmes. One part of the list to which I referred earlier was about complying with greater transparency on those costs. The suppliers would be expected to be able to comply on the cost of delivering government environmental and social programmes. Just to reassure noble Lords, the power enables the Secretary of State to specify the particular kinds of costs that suppliers must refer to, so if we need to get further detail, there is scope to enable that to happen.

I have tried to provide a balance between not overcomplicating the Bill and enabling consumers to be able to look at a bill, see how much their energy is costing them and see whether they are able to get a cheaper deal elsewhere. Providing that information in a way that is clear and easy to understand is what my amendment proposes to do.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Grantchester]

My Lords, we, too, thank the Minister for joining with the energy department to bring forward this sensible amendment which, if implemented, will undoubtedly save lives. We also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, and other noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Harrison who cannot be in his place today, who have campaigned strongly on the issue. Deaths from carbon monoxide and from fire are avoidable. These alarms are cheap to buy and fix and must be among the most efficient life-saving devices ever on the market. It must also be stressed that there can be no substitute for regular maintenance. I am glad to see that element also included in the amendment.

While welcoming the consultation to capture views on how the measure may be taken forward as part of a wider review, our only concern is that the Government may not bring forward the necessary regulations despite the undoubted value of these devices, which could save hundreds of lives a year. Will the Minister tell the House when the review announced on 16 October will report? We see no reason to hold up this welcome measure unnecessarily while the review looks at a number of other, quite unrelated issues. We therefore urge the Government to move with some haste on this measure, so saving tenants across the country from the risk of death either from fire or from carbon monoxide poisoning.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken and for their support for these government amendments. I share the views expressed by my noble friend Lady Maddock and the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, on the work that my noble friend Lady Verma has done in this area. It was she who responded to the debates in Committee and ensured that there was the greater collaboration across government departments that led to the announcement that I made on Report. We have worked together on this, but the amendment was triggered by her response to the debates that took place in Committee.

I do not think that there is a great deal more for me to add to the points that I made when moving the amendment. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, for his support for the amendment. As I said in my opening remarks, the review that the measure forms part of will conclude next June. We will be as swift as possible in making public our conclusions in response to that review. As I have said and as I have demonstrated today, if the outcome of that review is a decision that we should regulate, we now have in place the order-making powers that would make that possible. The noble Lord urged us to go further, but as I said when we discussed this matter at the previous stage, his own Government conducted a comprehensive review of this area only in 2009 and concluded that they should limit regulations to just the installation of solid-fuel appliances. I accept his challenge and the pressure he puts on me to make sure that we go further, but we are doing this by way of review because we think that it is the right thing to do. I am quite confident that, by conducting a comprehensive review, we will be able clearly to demonstrate that our conclusions are evidence-based and well informed.