China: Security and Trade (IRDC Report)

Lord Goodlad Excerpts

Thursday 20th October 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Goodlad (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend Lady Anelay and the committee on the report and my noble friend on her speech introducing the debate today. Much has taken place since the publication of the report, all of which underlines the importance of its deliberations and recommendations.

It is a great pleasure to follow the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, who spoke with such authority, particularly about the strategic considerations covered in the report. I agree with so much that was said by the noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Pittenweem, and, indeed, by the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, that I will try to be brief and avoid tedious repetition.

The main recommendation, that the Government publish a clear China strategy that identifies the long-term objectives and relative priorities, has been extremely well covered by my noble friend and the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup. It is noteworthy that in the debate in July introduced by the noble Lord, Lord West, my noble friend Lord Sharpe said that the National Security Council leads the strategic approach to China and that the Government

“do not publish NSC strategies on China or other issues.”—[Official Report, 14/7/22; col. 1635.]

We all understand the reasons for that, as covered by the noble and gallant Lord. As the book of Ecclesiastes reminds us, there is

“A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak.”


It is certainly true, as the report says, that the Government have not set out a clear position on their strategy for balancing their ambition for increased economic engagement with China with the need to protect our wider interests and values. However, as the noble and gallant Lord said, there is a distinction between having a strategy and spelling it out in every detail publicly. The Government have not yet struck that balance, and must do so.

The strategic concept document accepted at the NATO heads of government summit in June summarised the situation starkly and succinctly. In the unprecedented joint address by the head of the UK Security Service and the head of the United States FBI in July, the former referred to China remaining opaque about its strategy, intentions and military build-up; the latter gave an informed summary of how their organisation viewed the threats to our—and their—economic and national security and how they were responding to them. I hope that when he responds, my noble friend the Minister will go as far as he reasonably can to reduce that opacity and amplify what has been said publicly by the Government.

In dealing with China, I use the word to mean the Government of the People’s Republic of China, rather than the country or its people.

I acknowledge that public utterances can sometimes make a bad situation worse. We in this country have historically taken, until recently, a very cautious approach. However, there is a distinction between counterproductive megaphone diplomacy and robust public exchanges. In my experience, Chinese government interlocutors respect plain speaking rather than circumlocution. Their own official spokesmen have seldom erred on the side of reticence or understatement. Speaking in private, which has been our tradition, may or may not carry more weight than public utterances, if indeed any weight at all, depending on the circumstances. The important thing in my view is to continue to engage. As the report says, there is no realistic alternative.

It is welcome that, in their response to the report, the Government said that they would continue to co-operate and engage with China in areas of shared interest, as my noble friend Lady Anelay, said, such as climate change, biodiversity and global health. To that I would add, among other things, Russia’s threats to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine, which I believe have rung alarm bells in Beijing as elsewhere, as the noble Lord, Lord Campbell, mentioned. China has considerable political leverage with Russia, and that is clearly an area where it is worth trying to engage.

In their reply to the committee’s report, the Government rightly recognised that British interests are best served by an international rules-based order—that has always been the British Government’s position. It is proposed that the Government should play a leading role in strengthening international organisations, such as the World Trade Organization, and assembling a group of nations with sufficient aggregate political, economic and scientific power to counter that of China and successfully influence uncommitted countries. It would helpfully serve that important and laudable objective if the British Government themselves continue to uphold and treat international law as a whole and not as an à la carte menu from which to choose their own preferences. In that context, I believe it to be important that this country continues to abide by our treaty obligations under the joint declaration on the future of Hong Kong, which continue for a further 25 years, whatever the future circumstances may be and whatever China may do.

The committee rightly pointed out that, in seeking to further any of our objectives and strategic priorities, careful diplomacy would be needed and that the necessary understanding of China was neither as deep nor as widespread across government as needed. I share that perception. We live, needless to say, in straitened economic circumstances, but in the totality of government expenditure the Foreign Office budget is exiguous. We have spent time and money in the past, through the Great Britain-China Centre and other organisations, seeking to help build capacity in China in such areas as law and accountancy. We should now devote resources to building our own capacity, both linguistic and in knowledge of China’s life, history and culture across government. It is encouraging that the Government in their response to the report have recognised that.

Nor should those efforts be restricted to government employees; there should be a holistic approach across government. The education system itself should be encouraged to foster a knowledge of Chinese languages, history and culture. I speak as the modestly proud father of one who studied Mandarin at both British and Chinese universities before working in China. This should be a high priority across government. Again, it is welcome that, in their response to the report, the Government commit to strengthening people-to-people links and support Chinese language teaching and cultural exchange with China.

The noble Lord, Lord Campbell, referred to the disgraceful scenes in Manchester, which we all saw on our television screens earlier this week. In his book Experiences of China, published in 1994, the late Sir Percy Cradock recounts how after the sacking of the British embassy in Peking during the Cultural Revolution, he, bloody but unbowed, surrounded by a howling mob, quoted to his British companions in distress Virgil’s line from the Aeneid:

“forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit”—

perhaps even these things it will one day be a joy to recall. Perhaps we should today read a little further in the Aeneid:

“Durate, et vosmet rebus servate secundis”—


then endure for a while and live for a happier day. Or again:

“nunc animis opus, Aenea, nunc pectore firmo”—


now, Aeneas, for a bold spirit and a strong heart. The Government deserve our full support in this important and extremely difficult task of managing this relationship. We wish them well.

Commonwealth

Lord Goodlad Excerpts

Thursday 30th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goodlad (Con)]

My Lords, I too congratulate my noble friend Lord Howell on securing this debate and on his wise, perceptive remarks. He has personally made a distinguished contribution to the Commonwealth in various capacities. I also pay tribute to my noble friend Lord Marland’s work for the Commonwealth Business Council, whose activities have burgeoned under his leadership; I look forward to his speech. It is a great privilege to follow the wise words of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Southwark.

The Government’s recent UK Commonwealth Chair-In-Office Report tells an impressive story and is a comprehensive rebuttal of the case of those who say that the Commonwealth is an amorphous anachronism doomed to atrophy. The British Government’s role in supporting Commonwealth work in global health security, most recently during the pandemic, has been vital—especially in delivering vaccine doses, where there is still much more work to be done. In addition to allocating core funding for the secretariat, the Commonwealth Youth Programme, the Commonwealth Fund for Technical Co-operation, the Commonwealth Foundation and the Commonwealth of Learning, the Government have supported 32 other projects, from good governance and parliamentary accountability to countering violent extremism. Some may say that future government support for the secretariat should be accompanied by even more persuasive advice in the future than there has been in the past; I could not possibly comment.

Important progress has been made in many areas. Commitment to human rights and the rule of law was marked by the delivery of the first Commonwealth statement in the United Nations Human Rights Council. Trade barriers have continued to be lowered, an area where further progress can and should be made. The Commonwealth Climate Finance Access Hub gives vital support to some of the most climatically vulnerable countries in the world, again with essential British financial support.

The examples of British government support are legion but, as my noble friend Lord Howell rightly pointed out in the debate in your Lordships’ House last July, the binding ties of a voluntary non-treaty global organisation such as the Commonwealth rely less on Governments than on links between businesses, non-governmental organisations, the professions, educational and scientific institutions and in sport, culture and the arts. That remains the reality.

The Commonwealth’s priorities—economic development, global health, security, human rights, good governance, the rule of law, an international rules-based system, climate change and protection of the environment, and a more secure world—will all continue to need the contribution of Governments, including our own, and non-government participants. The Commonwealth is well endowed with all such participants and has demonstrated clearly the collective will to drive those priorities forward. It has much to be proud of. It also has formidable challenges ahead. I hope and believe that we shall meet those challenges.

I look forward to hearing from my noble and learned friend the Minister, to whom the Commonwealth is greatly indebted, as the noble Lord, Lord McDonald, has said, for his work over the last few years, as indeed is your Lordships’ House.

Queen’s Speech

Lord Goodlad Excerpts

Tuesday 17th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goodlad (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the Government’s commitment in the gracious Speech to bring forward a draft mental health Bill. I hope that the consultation, ending in June, will be followed by early legislation. I particularly hope that the provisions of the Bill will address dementia, which is the fastest-growing health condition in the UK and, apart from the suffering and distress it causes, is set to be the most expensive condition by 2030.

Almost 1 million people in the country are currently living with dementia, costing the economy £25 billion a year. Among the leading causes of death, dementia is the fastest-rising health condition, with the number of sufferers expected to increase to more than 1.6 million by 2050. Despite this, no new treatments have been approved in the UK to prevent, slow down or cure the diseases that cause dementia in nearly a decade. I hope that the Government will deliver on the manifesto commitment to the dementia moonshot, to double funding for dementia research and speed up clinical trials, as soon as possible. We should establish a dementia medicines task force to drive dementia research and clinical trials, as has been done in other fields—most recently Covid.

I also welcome the Government’s commitment to publish and implement a women’s health strategy, which would be closely integrated with the promised forthcoming dementia strategy. Dementia has been the leading cause of death for women for more than a decade. In 2020, around 46,000 women died from dementia, compared with 33,000 from Covid-19. Women are at greater risk of dementia than men, although dementia was the third most common cause of death in men in 2020, after Covid-19 and heart disease. Nearly two-thirds of dementia sufferers are women. The lifetime risk of developing dementia for women is one in five, compared with one in 10 for men. Nobody yet knows why this should be.

I welcome also the Government’s commitment to invest £2.3 billion to increase diagnostic activity and to establish 160 community diagnostic centres. Dementia is seriously underdiagnosed and should be specifically included—I hope in the legislation—in the scope of the community diagnostic centres. In the long term, the Government should in my view provide the resources, infrastructure and clinical workforce to build adequate diagnostic capacity. Dementia is a condition directly or indirectly affecting nearly every family in the land. I hope that the Government will now give priority to research into its causes, diagnosis and treatment.

Commonwealth

Lord Goodlad Excerpts

Thursday 16th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goodlad (Con)]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, who has done so much to entertain and inspire young people in this country and no doubt in other parts of the Commonwealth. I very much share her concern about the overseas pensioners to whom she referred and about whom I was greatly concerned when I was in Australia. She is quite right that the Government now have an opportunity to look at the issue again. I, too, congratulate my noble friend Lady Anelay on her introduction of this debate, and particularly on her tremendous work as our Commonwealth Minister.

The term Commonwealth of Nations was first used by Lord Rosebery, speaking in Adelaide in 1884, 10 years before he became Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. He was probably down under for the Melbourne Cup. Little can he or his hearers—who then thought only about the British Empire—have imagined what the Commonwealth of today would be. Those of us who have been privileged to visit most of and live and work in some of the countries of the Commonwealth, truly do feel part of a worldwide family, with shared values, vulnerabilities, hopes and aspirations.

The recent meeting of Commonwealth Trade Ministers at Marlborough House, to which my noble friend referred, clearly signified a new determination to make the Commonwealth a driving force for a better world. The resolutions about global trade, protectionism, the sustainable development goals, the so-called Commonwealth advantage, the needs of small vulnerable economies, intra-Commonwealth trade and investment, and a commitment to regular Trade Minister meetings in the future have produced a practical agenda for the secretariat. I am sure, from what we have heard from my noble friend, that the Government will play a leading part in forwarding that agenda.

I declare an interest as president of the Overseas Service Pensioners Association, which represents the surviving members of what was Her Majesty’s Overseas Civil Service, who were responsible for the administration and development of the former colonial territories that now constitute the great majority of the member countries of the Commonwealth. I inherited that interest some years ago from the late Lord Waddington, to whom your Lordships recently paid tribute and who is remembered by the Overseas Service Pensioners Association with affection, respect and gratitude.

Her Majesty’s Overseas Civil Service came to an end in 1997 with the transfer of the sovereignty of Hong Kong to China, but the pensioner members are living out their lifespans remembering, I believe with justifiable pride, the achievements of their lifetime’s service. Their dwindling numbers have led to the planned ending of the association later this year. The records of the service—and of the origins, therefore, of the Commonwealth—are being carefully safeguarded and enhanced by academic institutions here for posterity. Several hundred members of the association from all over the world will converge for a final event in London in June. They and their predecessors have made an immense contribution not only to the administration and development of the former colonial territories but to the very ethos of the Commonwealth as we know it today. I believe that we owe them all a debt of gratitude.

My noble friend the Minister is aware of the privations which have been suffered in recent years by those retired British officers who agreed with the British Government’s request to stay at their posts after the unilateral declaration of independence in Southern Rhodesia, and again after Southern Rhodesia’s independence. Despite the British Government’s assurance at the time of the Lancaster House agreement, and by my noble friend Lord Trefgarne, who I am delighted to see in his place, that the constitution would contain full safeguards for pensions, the pensions owing to many of those pensioners by the Government of Zimbabwe have in recent years not been paid. Those involved now number between 1,200 and 1,500 people living in various countries. A debate was held in this House some years ago, introduced by Lord Waddington, during which the then Minister—the noble Lord, Lord Malloch-Brown—gave some hope that Her Majesty’s Government might give some help to those pensioners, but that help was not forthcoming. Since then, there has been much correspondence and meetings with Ministers and officials, for which the association is grateful, but so far to no avail. I hope that, even at this late stage, my noble friend the Minister will be able to offer some hope that the Government will now look seriously at every possible way—perhaps through supporting the proposed Zimbabwe public service pension fund—of alleviating the undeserved penury, and indeed, in some cases, worse, of these loyal former servants of the Crown. Many people, including myself, regard it as if not a legal obligation, a moral obligation and a debt of honour.

The noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland, set out her personal vision of the Commonwealth in the Romanes Lecture in Oxford a few weeks ago. It is a very remarkable agenda and the noble and learned Baroness deserves all our support in fulfilling it. I wholly endorse the remarks of my noble friend Lord Howell in saying that the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland, deserves—and I am quite sure will receive—the full support of Members of this House.

The setting up of the Commonwealth Office of Civil and Criminal Justice Reform is potentially a ground-breaking development. To share templates for legislative reform and best practice in Commonwealth jurisdictions will benefit us all. Partnerships with the judiciary, prosecutors, police, national human rights institutions, international agencies and civil society organisations will make a widespread difference. The Tackling Corruption Together conference last May showed the determination of leaders in government, civil society and business to agree on practical steps to expose and make at least a dent in corruption. Although Hong Kong is sadly no longer a member of the Commonwealth, I hope that the experience of the Independent Commission Against Corruption, which has been such an enormous success there, can be built on elsewhere. This is an immensely sensitive area and the values and qualities that the Commonwealth countries share could, if successfully applied, have great potential not only in the Commonwealth but throughout the world.

The Commonwealth has been rightly described as a network of networks—networks of states, Governments, businesses and institutions, with fluid and dynamic patterns of allegiance, alliances and friendships, linked by our shared history, language, legal systems and values. We now live in the digital age—a new network linking the millions of young people in the Commonwealth who represent a huge proportion of the population of the Commonwealth, and who will be texting and tweeting each other with ever-increasing velocity as the years go by, bringing everybody closer and closer together.

I am totally delighted that the present Government are so wholly committed to the future of the Commonwealth in the ways in which my noble friend Lady Anelay so eloquently outlined. I join other noble Lords who have spoken in the hope and belief that, in the words of Ben Okri inscribed into the stone pillar of the Commonwealth Gates:

“Our future is greater than our past”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Mobarik]

I think the noble Baroness has raised this question in a previous debate. Perhaps I should write to her to clarify our position on that issue.

My noble friends Lord Popat and Lord Sheikh rightly recognised the important role played by our trade envoys in delivering our vision for a truly global Britain, particularly in enhancing our relationships with Commonwealth partners. I commend my noble friend Lord Popat for his personal work as trade envoy to Uganda and Rwanda since January 2016. I know that he has built strong links with both countries. The Department for International Trade has recently undertaken a review of the trade envoy programme and recommendations on its future direction are now with the Prime Minister.

The noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, and my noble friend Lord Goodlad raised the issue of pensions. Uprating state pensions overseas is a long-standing policy of successive Governments. This has been the case for almost 70 years and there are no plans to change the policy.

To my noble friend Lord Sheikh I say that we are proud of our long and productive relationship with Commonwealth partners and are committed to delivering a future border system which welcomes investment and promotes prosperity. The precise arrangements for controlling immigration after the UK leaves the EU have yet to be determined. Openness to international talent will remain one of the UK’s distinctive assets.

The noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, mentioned the importance of embedding women’s rights in all future trade deals. I reassure the noble Baroness that the Government, through their delivery of a successful Commonwealth summit and their wider trade policy, are committed to building genuinely inclusive prosperity that benefits and provides opportunities for all. We welcome the opportunity for dialogue on human rights and good governance brought about by our close trading partnerships with countries around the world.

[Lord Goodlad]

My noble friend bracketed my raising the Zimbabwe pensioners with the uprating of the overseas pensions referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin. They are completely separate issues. Can she say something in response to what I said?

[Baroness Mobarik]

I apologise to the noble Lord if I have confused the two issues. I will certainly look at what he said on that issue and get back to him in due course.

Another way in which we are strengthening our ties with the Commonwealth is through our support for reform. We want to see the organisation delivering effectively for its members as well as demonstrating its value and relevance on the world stage. The noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland, was mandated by Heads of Government to reform the Commonwealth Secretariat. We support her plans to modernise and revitalise the secretariat and to focus the Commonwealth on where it adds distinctive value. That means strengthening its relevance to members across different regions and its contribution to tackling global challenges.

The Commonwealth’s potential contribution to tackling these challenges could be immense. This is what we mean when we talk about the Commonwealth as a force for good. The global reach and extraordinary diversity of the Commonwealth mean that it has first-hand experience of most of the world’s greatest challenges, from poverty and violent extremism to conflict, corruption and climate change. All these issues matter to Commonwealth members, and they matter to the world. We want the Commonwealth to do more to use its influence, building consensus on important issues as it did on climate change prior to COP21.

In upholding the values of the Commonwealth charter, the Commonwealth plays an important role in strengthening governance, supporting development and building small states’ resilience to economic and environmental shocks. It also promotes co-operation on issues such as human rights and combating extremism. These are all areas in which the Commonwealth has valuable experience and expertise to share with the wider world.

The noble Lord, Lord Scriven, spoke of the importance of the work of the Kaleidoscope Trust in developing proposals to promote and protect LGBT rights at the Commonwealth summit. The Government greatly value the work of LGBT civil society organisations and our partnership with them to tackle discrimination and violence against LGBT people. We are aware that members of the Commonwealth Equality Network have drawn up a strategy setting out recommended tools and methods to engage LGBT civil society organisations ahead of the summit. We will consider how we can best support these endeavours. A number of noble Lords raised this issue and requested that we show leadership in this area. I absolutely agree with all noble Lords on that.

United Kingdom and China

Lord Goodlad Excerpts

Thursday 7th November 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goodlad (Con)]

My Lords, I join other noble Lords in congratulating my noble friend Lord Dobbs on his perceptive speech introducing our debate. He has given us much food for thought. I also endorse the tributes paid to my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe on her eloquent maiden speech, and I, too, hope that we shall hear more from her in future.

My noble friend Lord Dobbs rightly dwelt on the pace of change in China and the possible directions that change might take. He alluded to possible implosion. What, if anything, should the British Government and Parliament be doing to influence future change in China? My noble friend Lord Howell, in his most recently published masterpiece, Old Links and New Ties: Power and Persuasion in an Age of Networks, has this to say:

“Those schoolbooks about capital flowing from the West into the developing world are history. The wealth, as well as the … technological skills, have long since been flowing the other way, with the debt-laden Western ‘powers’ now turning east and south for desperately needed investment and capital from the massive savings and the huge sovereign wealth funds of Asia. It is now from India and China that we have so much to learn, not the other way round. They certainly don’t want lectures from us”.

So, no lectures please.

However, it is perfectly possible, as the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has been doing for a very long time, to exert quiet and helpful influence, to encourage moves towards greater openness while avoiding explicit criticism or confrontation and to continue to support reform in China, not just on the rule of law and the judiciary but also in areas such as bribery, transparency, open government and the development of civil society, not through lecturing or preaching but through the sharing of best practice with partners representing a very ancient civilisation.

Is it appropriate, some ask, that in its reports on human rights and democracy the FCO should publicly comment on subjects such as China’s online censorship, harassment of human rights defenders, the inadequacies of safeguards in China to guarantee the rule of law and access to justice, Tibet and other subjects? The answer is clearly yes, it is appropriate and important. Why else would China engage in more than 20 rounds of the UK/China human rights dialogue on subjects such as detainee rights; migrant rights; capital punishment; freedom of expression; freedom of religion; China’s plans for ratification of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights; ethnic minority rights; individual human rights cases; the role of faith groups in civil society; and the use of evidence in criminal trials? The Government of the People’s Republic do not want implosion.

I shall say a brief word about Hong Kong as part of our relationship with China. Hong Kong constitutes a very large proportion of China’s economy and for historical reasons, as has been said, we have an enormous stake in Hong Kong, as Hong Kong has here. This historical and still growing interrelationship is not and will not be at the cost of our economic relationship with Shanghai, Guangdong, Chengdu and the other growth points of China but complementary to them. It is an important relationship, both to China and to this country.

The Foreign Office, rightly, takes very seriously its commitments under the Sino-British joint declaration. A recent six-monthly report to Parliament on the implementation of the Sino-British joint declaration on the question of Hong Kong concluded that after the handover of sovereignty in 1997 the rights and freedoms guaranteed in the joint declaration have in general been respected. The rule of law and the independence of the judiciary continue to be upheld. The report expressed concerns about freedom of the press and of expression and urged the new chief executive to ensure the full protection of the rights and freedoms which are essential to Hong Kong’s success. In the foreword, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said that he looked forward to further substantive progress towards full, universal and equal suffrage for elections in 2017 and 2020.

It is to be welcomed that the UK branch of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association is sending a delegation to LegCo next week to discuss matters of mutual interest. They can be assured of a warm and enthusiastic welcome.

There is a very high degree of experience and concern for Hong Kong in your Lordships’ House. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s six-monthly report to Parliament, to which I have alluded, could perhaps be debated in this House if the Government can find time. Perhaps the Minister would like to talk to his colleagues about that, because I think this House could make a helpful contribution.

The former Prime Minister and Foreign Minister of Australia, Kevin Rudd, himself a distinguished sinologist, wrote recently in the New Statesman:

“the challenge we all face (China included) is managing the rise of a non-democratic China as a great power within the framework of the international order … It will require the highest levels of political engagement and thoughtful diplomacy that the world has seen since the end of the cold war”.

The outcome of the recent fifth China-UK economic and financial dialogue has clearly marked an important step forward in China-Britain relations. China believes that the growth of China-UK relations serves the shared interests of both countries and contributes to world peace and development and wishes to work for a more healthy and stable relationship on the basis of respecting each other’s interests and concerns. It is in everyone’s interests that we pursue stronger and deeper trade and economic relationships, while at the same time maintaining our long-standing position on human rights. The welcome developments of recent weeks and months have proved that where there is good will and a mutuality of interest, much can, and will, be achieved.