Forestry Commissioners (Climate Change Functions) (Scotland) (Consequential Modifications) Order 2012

Debate between Lord Geddes and Lord Wallace of Tankerness

Tuesday 23rd October 2012 Grand Committee

[Lord Wallace of Tankerness]

My Lords—

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Geddes)]

My Lords, there is a problem with the sound system. The Grand Committee will adjourn.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees]

My Lords, it is now 7.05 pm—oh! Let us try that again; it seems like an eon. It is 4.05 pm. Perhaps now peace and quiet has been resumed, the Minister would also resume.

[Lord Wallace of Tankerness]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Mar and Kellie and the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, for their contributions to this debate and for their general welcome for the proposals. The noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, asked from where the impetus for this had come. The origins go back to the Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009, which in its generality was setting targets for carbon emissions and the amount of electricity that can be generated from non-fossil fuel renewable sources. The Scottish Government were very keen to make full use of the renewable potential of the estate, which is operated by the forestry commissioners. Indeed my noble friend Lord Mar and Kellie remarked that widening the geographical scope of renewable energy production perhaps takes the pressure off other parts of the country, bearing in mind that the Forestry Commission’s estate is almost 10 per cent of the Scottish land area.

My noble friend asked if there were any further potential hydro locations. I am advised that the commission is taking a proactive approach with developers and communities to identify further locations. I think it is important to emphasise the fact that this embraces electricity generation by means of hydropower. It is not solely wind power. The forestry commissioners, however, made it clear that they do not intend to go down the route of biomass, because that could lead to a conflict of interest with their role as timber suppliers. My noble friend expressed the view that it was vital that sites should be connected to the national grid. I can confirm that proposals would only go ahead if there were grid connections.

The noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, asked about the position with regard to consultation. The consultation took place in relation to the 2009 legislation. It took place ahead of that, although part of the consultation specifically related to the role of the forestry commissioners. The consultation document explained that the provision would facilitate the development of renewable energy potential of the land in Scotland put at the disposal of the forestry commissioners by Scottish Ministers. There were 368 responses to the specific question:

“What are your views on allowing the Forestry Commissioners to enter into joint ventures, with the intention of participating in renewable energy programmes on national forest estate?”.

Seventy per cent of respondents expressed positive views on the option, although a number added caveats; 15% expressed negative views; and the remainder appeared to be neutral or undecided. The noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, asked about some of these concerns and whether indeed they had been taken into account. I can confirm that, yes, there were concerns that related to a possible conflict between the regulatory activities of the Forestry Commission Scotland in respect of renewable developments. As a consequence, a forest renewables unit has been set up; it separates the operation of the development role of the commission from its regulatory role.

The noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, also asked why no impact assessment had been prepared for the order. The position is that orders made under the Scotland Act are required to be laid in draft if, among other things, they vary the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament, executive competence of Scottish Ministers or make changes to reserve UK primary legislation in consequences of Acts of the Scottish Parliament. Usually such orders do not in themselves have a direct or indirect impact, whether in benefit or cost on businesses, charities or the voluntary sector. They would therefore not normally have any regulatory impact. On this occasion, a full impact assessment was not produced as this instrument simply allows the forestry commissioners to enter into voluntary joint ventures with commercial partners should they wish. It does not impose on private sector or civil society organisations.

I conclude on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, that wind developments tend to be controversial. I reiterate what I said in my opening remarks, that any specific proposal that is brought forward will be subject, if it is 50 megawatts or over, to the regime under Section 36 of the Electricity Act 1989. If it is lower than 50 megawatts, it will be subject to the planning regime. Therefore this order does not in any way detract from the planning arrangements that are already in place.