Defamation Bill

Debate between Lord Geddes and Lord Lester of Herne Hill

Thursday 17th January 2013 Grand Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees]

It is unusual to speak after the Minister, but there is nothing to prevent any noble Lord speaking.

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

I am grateful to the deputy chairman. I am sorry to be unusual, but I normally am. Not only do I agree with what has been said but, in my mind, extending statutory qualified privilege in the schedule is one of the most useful things that the Bill does. We are dealing there with clearly prescribed situations, of which this is one, where, if the press gives a fair and accurate report, it will be protected, as will the public interest. The fact that this has been extended extremely broadly, as my Bill sought to do, whereas the 1996 Act did not do so, is a matter for congratulation.

Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Debate between Lord Geddes and Lord Lester of Herne Hill

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Grand Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Geddes)]

My Lords, before putting the Question for withdrawal, it may be helpful to the Grand Committee if I say that I have received advice that in order to take part in discussion on an amendment, a noble Lord must be in his place throughout debate on an amendment, most particularly while the proposer of the amendment is making his or her speech. Thus, with great respect to the noble Lord, Lord Lester, his intervention, although out of order, is, nevertheless, on the record and will remain on the record.

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

I thank the Deputy Chairman of Committees for that, but perhaps I may also say that advice was taken from his predecessor before I spoke, and we received a different view.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees]

Indeed, so my predecessor told me, but since then we have had the great advantage of electronic checking and back came the reply just as I have given it. That may be for the assistance of future proceedings of Grand Committee.

Defamation Bill

Debate between Lord Geddes and Lord Lester of Herne Hill

Monday 17th December 2012 Grand Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Geddes)]

Somewhat unusually, the noble Lord begged to move his amendment at the beginning rather than the end of his words. However, I am prepared to take it that he does wish to move his amendment.

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

My Lords, it is true that my Bill had a similar provision in it, but it did not have a serious harm test. The big difference is that the Government’s Bill now has Clause 1. Therefore, one of the problems with the amendment is that it does not take account of the shift from my Bill, without a serious harm test, to what we now have. The second problem is that there is a right of access to justice guaranteed by Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights, and therefore we have to be extremely careful that we do not fetter that right with an excessive strike-out power. Probably that is not the most significant problem because the third problem concerns EU law and the Lugano convention. If noble Lords look at Clause 9, they will see that there is complicated stuff about:

“Action against a person not domiciled in the UK or a Member State etc”.

One of the problems—luckily I do not have to deal with this because the Minister will have behind him a whole battery of those who can—is that under EU law, one has to make sure that there is access to justice in this country in the defamation field, and that is because of a case of Shevill. As a result of that case, the European Court of Justice has made it clear that one must be able to bring one’s cause of action in defamation here in respect of a tort that has been committed elsewhere within the EU. Without making too much of a meal of it, I do not think the way that this is worded would pass muster under the Shevill test, and in any case it is not necessary because of the substantial serious harm test coupled with proper case management. Finally, the idea of the county court is something that I have always espoused. I do not think that needs much on the face of the Bill, but that is for another day.