Sustainable Fisheries for Future Generations
Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Hunt of Chesterton(6 years, 4 months ago)
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Lord Gardiner of Kimble
I entirely agree with my noble friend. As I have said before, if we do not have sustainability and adhere to maximum sustainable yields, the ecosystem of our waters—as a whole and not just for consumption—will be put in peril. Sustainability is absolutely key. Obviously, we have all been very concerned about discard and the complete waste that it has caused. As part of that, we will consider the vexed issue of choke and choke species and look for solutions. Clearly, these issues are quite difficult and technical. We need to ensure that we do not overfish but fish sustainably. Therefore, the issues of discard and choke are a key element of seeking to keep our stocks in good order.
Lord Hunt of Chesterton (Lab)
My Lords, one of the report’s important features is the role of our research through Cefas. There is no mention that we will maintain or even increase it. There have been some cutbacks in Cefas. To have agreement between the UK and Europe as we move forward, we will need agreement about research. There has been considerable agreement about it, but it is very important that we maintain good links with our European research colleagues.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, knowledge and understanding of sustainability is obviously not possible without scientific evidence and research. Clearly, Cefas is an outstanding place of research. Of course, I think that it is world-leading and will furnish us. In discussions, knowledge of zonal attachment and how we work with fish stocks not respecting borders—we share fish stocks in so many cases—means that we need to work in co-operation. Indeed, the spirit of co-operation is an essential part of international law on fisheries. Cefas will provide us with research, but there are excellent research bodies all around the world.
I should say to my noble friend Lady Byford that I forgot about the under-10 metre category. Further allocations have been made with unused quota. It is a very important area of our fishing world.
Flooding: Defences
Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Hunt of Chesterton(8 years ago)
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Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I am not in a position today to say what our domestic arrangements will be after we have left the EU. However, as I think we all know, “slowing the flow”—Pickering is a good example, as is the Defra-funded demonstration projects at Holnicote in Somerset and Upper Derwent in the Peak District—clearly demonstrates that natural flood-management measures are very important in reducing flood flow and height downstream. So, I think this is a very interesting proposal.
Lord Hunt of Chesterton (Lab)
My Lords, can the Minister explain why government agencies have not been providing real-time warnings to individual houses and communities about flood levels, as happens in the Philippines’ NOAH system, where special hand-held communication devices are widely distributed so that people receive and send flood messages to control centres, leading to more accurate flood warnings for emergency services?
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, that is precisely why—as set out in the letter I wrote and the Environment Agency paper Winter Ready 2016—the Environment Agency is extending flooding-warning service to more communities and improving the range of digital services on GOV.UK, to help people take action to minimise the impact. I very much hope the noble Lord will think of going to the meeting on 29 November, when the Environment Agency and other departments will be in Parliament so that all these matters can be discussed in more detail.
Air Quality
Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Hunt of Chesterton(8 years ago)
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Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, the Government believe that the Heathrow north-west runway scheme can be delivered without impacting on the UK’s compliance with air quality limit levels, with a suitable package of policy and mitigation measures. Indeed, final development consent will only be granted if we are satisfied that, with mitigation, the scheme is compliant with our legal obligations.
Lord Hunt of Chesterton (Lab)
My Lords, would the Minister like to consider that in London there is a system called airText, which provides warnings for people, particularly those suffering from air pollution? It seems to me that that could be done quite immediately. The financial support and the arrangements need to be expanded, but we could roll it out throughout the country and if people know that tomorrow is going to be bad, they can then take steps. It seems to me that that should be done urgently—and of course, it is done in other cities.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, in order to give the noble Lord full details, I will take that point away, but it is very important that we provide information, particularly for vulnerable people. Given the air quality zones and the knowledge that Defra has on air quality across the nation, I suspect that that is within scope and that we could do it, but I will take this point away and inform the noble Lord and others about it.
Marine Litter
Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Hunt of Chesterton
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, we are not. I do not think that my noble friend quite understood what I was saying. We are working with industry on a voluntary basis to phase out microbeads, and that is working. All I said was that because pollution is a transboundary matter, it is not just for the UK but for the whole world to deal with it. We will deal with it with whichever organisations and whichever communities we can.
Lord Hunt of Chesterton (Lab)
My Lords, which United Nations agencies are the Government working with on this question? Is there a plan for working with these agencies to have some targets for the future about cleaning up the oceans? I declare an interest as president of ACOPS, which deals with these matters.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, because this is a serious problem we are working at national level, Ospar level, EU level and international level through the G7 and, as I say, with overseas territories. There is a lot going on.
The North Sea under Pressure (EUC Report)
Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Hunt of Chesterton
Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)
My Lords, I very much welcome this debate and congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, on securing it. I also thank all committee members for their thorough report and acknowledge the work of the clerks and other staff, who, as is habitual in this House, make such a contribution to the work that we are all engaged upon.
I do not know whether this will be satisfactory for the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, but on the timing my understanding is that, because of the general election, the response was not started until the new Government were in place and policies had been decided on. The noble Baroness will perhaps be able to help me with this after the debate but I understand that the response to the report was further delayed while Scotland decided whether it wanted to be part of the Government’s response or to provide its own response. Eventually, Scotland decided that it wished to make its own response, but I am afraid that I am not aware of whether the Scottish Government have in fact supplied it. That may not be as satisfactory as the noble Baroness would wish but those are the reasons that I put to her.
The committee’s report considers whether the existing structures for a collaborative approach to the management of the North Sea are appropriate. This is against the background of the North Sea being one of the busiest sea areas in the world, with a diverse range of economic activities, described fully by the noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Dillington, and numerous environmental features that require protection.
Although one would not gain this impression from what noble Lords have said tonight, I say at the outset that the Government strongly support a co-ordinated approach to the management of the North Sea, particularly through co-operation with our North Sea neighbours. Indeed, we have been co-operating with our North Sea neighbours for many years—for example, through the International Maritime Organization, to which the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Chesterton, referred, and the Ospar Convention, the Oslo and Paris conventions for the protection of the north-east Atlantic.
We also co-operate very closely with EU member states, and the Government share the committee’s enthusiastic welcome for the appointment of a European Commissioner responsible for both environmental policy and maritime affairs. This EU approach has already created benefits, including guidance to member states on, for example, fishery matters to protect habitats in marine protected areas. I notice that the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, is in her place. This may be an appropriate moment to mention that we had a very interesting debate on world biodiversity only last week, when some questions were asked about marine protected areas. In responding to that debate, I referred to the fact that:
“16% of UK waters are already protected in marine protected areas”.
As I said in answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones,
“the second tranche of these is on course to be established in January 2016 and a third tranche of sites will follow”.—[Official Report, 24/11/15; col. GC 140.]
My understanding is that more than 100 UK marine areas, as well as sites of special scientific interest with marine elements, are already protected under provisions such as the habitats and birds directive. In addition, the Government have designated 27 marine conservation zones. They consulted on a further 23 such zones earlier this year, and there is a third tranche of sites to follow, which we believe will help to complete a network of sites.
I take this opportunity also to mention the extraordinary marine protected areas within the overseas territories, which were referred to in our world biodiversity debate. A marine protected area around South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands covers more than 1 million square kilometres, which is equivalent to four times the size of the United Kingdom. Therefore, Her Majesty’s Government are particularly interested in protecting marine areas not only around our shores but internationally.
We are also acting, through Ospar, with the North Sea states to define and assess what constitutes an ecologically coherent network of marine protected areas at the regional sea scale. The UK Government support this co-operative approach to the designation of protected areas. Although final designation is a matter for each member state, the UK will continue to involve other member states in our consultation process.
We are also working with other member states to achieve good environmental status in our seas by 2020, under the marine strategy framework directive. Much of this is being processed through the EU marine strategy framework directive technical groups and through Ospar, including agreeing common indicators, data collection methodology, database management and analysis, which will assist in making cumulative impact assessments and better inform the collaborative approach that we wish to take.
In the North Sea area, Ospar also leads on the collaborative approach to taking action to address the issues identified, by pushing ahead to gather evidence that informs the development of appropriate actions that will contribute to the achievement of good environmental status. Indeed, Ospar’s regional action plan on marine litter is just one example of a successful, wide-ranging and meaningful outcome from this collaborative and co-operative approach.
I was particularly struck by what the noble Lords, Lord Hunt of Chesterton and Lord Cameron of Dillington said about litter. Those of us who enjoyed British seaside holidays in our youth remember that tar on children and dogs was always an issue. When one reads of the number of birds being found with plastic around them, one sees that this is surely something that we must address altogether.
Co-operative working is also essential for the implementation of the reformed EU common fisheries policy. The UK, including Marine Scotland, works very closely with other member states in the North Sea region; for example, to develop regional discard plans and, most importantly, for the demersal landing obligation that comes into force in January 2016. Indeed, my noble friend Lady Wilcox spoke powerfully about sea fisheries and brought, in her own way, all the experience of that great industry and its way of life to this debate. The noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, and the noble Lords, Lord Hunt of Chesterton and Lord Cameron of Dillington, all discussed the importance of fisheries and of getting this right—that is the point that we all need to now address. The Government welcome the enhanced role of the fisheries advisory councils under the reformed common fisheries policy. This co-ordinated and collaborative approach is already benefitting the sustainability of our fish stocks and our fishing industries in the North Sea, as we all seek to achieve the objective to which the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, referred: maximum sustainable yield.
This year’s Marine Stewardship Council’s amber listing of North Sea cod is just the latest indication of stock recovery, and cod should be fished to a maximum sustainable yield in 2016. This is clearly what we have to seek to achieve: the wise and sustainable use of fish stocks around our shores.
Implementing the reformed common fisheries policy also requires us to move from a focus on single-stock annual quotas to multi-annual mixed-fishery management plans. These will enable a more strategic approach to fisheries management that takes into account the relationship between different stocks, moving us closer to an ecosystem-based management. The European Commission aims to publish its proposal for a North Sea multi-annual plan early next year.
The Government agree with the committee that data collection initiatives should not be duplicated. That is why the Government are a major sponsor of the Marine Environmental Data and Information Network, MEDIN, which is a partnership of UK public and private organisations. MEDIN is committed to improving access to marine data so that data, once collected, can be used many times.
The UK also joins in Ospar and EU initiatives to co-ordinate data collection, including monitoring programmes under the marine strategy framework directive. This is complemented by the Secretary of State’s recent initiative to make virtually all the data Defra holds—at least 8,000 sets—freely available to the public over the next year, putting Britain at the forefront of the data revolution.
Co-operation can enable sea users to operate without impacting on others, and the Government agree with the committee that,
“International Maritime Organization guidance is comprehensive in its navigational safety requirements”,
and that the organisation has a regulatory process in place to implement that guidance.
The Department of Energy and Climate Change continues to work with offshore energy developers, the aggregates industry, the Crown Estate and other third parties to ensure that potential conflicts can be resolved at an early stage so that respective developments can co-exist where they may overlap.
Our marine areas are vital if we are to meet our current and future energy needs. The potential benefits of cross-border energy co-operation in the North Sea are surely significant in improving security of supply and reducing the cost of integrating renewables into the UK and EU markets. The noble Baroness, Lady Scott, referred to the North Seas Countries’ Offshore Grid Initiative. We will continue the work under way in that initiative to facilitate investment and trading, including identifying potentially suitable projects to test the feasibility of establishing a North Sea grid.
As the committee noted, a marine planning system is a significant element in the co-ordinated management of the North Sea. Our emerging network of marine plans will provide the principal means through which balanced decisions are taken on potential uses of the marine environment and its resources, and the benefits and impacts of human activities, informed by relevant national and transnational interests and obligations.
Our approach to marine planning in the UK is underpinned by the UK Marine Policy Statement, a cross-government policy framework signed up to by all four UK Administrations. This has successfully enabled consistency in marine planning by providing a high-level policy context within which national and subnational marine plans are being developed and implemented. Government departments are collaborating to support the development and implementation of marine plans, including closer integration on terrestrial and marine matters. We are making good progress on the UK network of marine plans, with two approved plans in the English North Sea and two further plans under way for the English Channel. The National Marine Plan for Scotland was published in March this year and marine plans for Wales and Northern Ireland are anticipated in 2016-17.
The noble Lord, Lord Greaves, and the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, referred to local authorities. UK local authorities and stakeholders from coastal communities are directly involved in shaping marine plans as they are developed. For example, 25 local and unitary authorities are regularly consulted in the development of the English North Sea plans. Where we have plans in place we are providing support to local authorities on their implementation, helping to ensure that marine plans impact on decision-making and the sustainable management of the marine area.
The noble Lord, Lord Greaves, asked about expenditure. My understanding is that, to date, the Government have invested about £8.9 million in the development of marine plans for England, with further investment promised to complete the currently planned network of England marine plans. If I have any further information as I think about other matters, I will of course write to the noble Lord.
The Government support transboundary co-operation as set out in the EU maritime spatial planning directive, but agree with the committee that it is for member states to determine how they co-operate. The principle of cross-border co-operation on marine planning is enshrined in the UK-wide Marine Policy Statement and the Government will continue to co-operate with neighbouring member states to ensure that marine plans are coherent and co-ordinated.
The UK actively engages in EU fora and initiatives on maritime spatial planning to realise effective co-operation with other member states, including those with a specific interest in the North Sea—for example, on the development of consistent methodologies and the exchange of data and best practice in order to inform the development of marine plans by individual member states. It is interesting to note that a recent meeting of the Ospar Convention confirmed that there was no requirement for an Ospar sub-committee on marine planning co-operation as it would only duplicate existing well-functioning structures.
In developing our UK marine plans, we have consulted neighbouring member states in order to ensure transboundary co-ordination and coherence between plans. In developing the England east marine plans, the Marine Management Organisation consulted relevant member states and Norway, hosting a number of workshops which facilitated discussion on cross-border interests. These efforts were well received.
The UK’s vision for the marine environment is for clean, healthy, safe, productive and biologically diverse oceans and seas. The regular review of the marine planning system will serve to ensure that it continues to contribute effectively to the delivery of this vision.
The noble Baroness, Lady Scott, and the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, asked what the Government’s stance is on the well-being of the North Sea. The committee recommended the establishment of another North Sea forum. I want to be clear that the Government are not convinced that an additional forum would be the best use of limited resources, given the existing level of co-operation around the North Sea that I have already outlined. I have a list of the fora that are already in place: OSPAR, which I have mentioned; the North Seas Countries’ Offshore Grid Initiative; regional groupings for fishery management; the EU Maritime Spatial Planning Expert Group; the EU Integrated Maritime Planning Expert Group; various groups under the marine strategy framework directive; the coastal concordat on marine licensing—there is a great deal of existing structures. It is interesting—I did not realise this until I read into it further—that the North Sea ministerial conference was wound up because all the significant political discussions were taking place effectively elsewhere.
The Government agree that UK local authorities and regional organisations should be involved in marine management issues, and there are already structures in place to enable them to do so. It is for them to decide where they believe membership of a forum is good value for money and helps to achieve environmental protection and economic development. In England, the coastal concordat was launched in November 2013 to increase co-operation between terrestrial and marine regulators and to streamline the consenting process for coastal development. The concordat partners include several government departments and the Local Government Association.
I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. I especially thank the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, and the members of the EU Committee for bringing forward this important report. I am sorry that we do not agree with all of the report.
Lord Hunt of Chesterton
Perhaps the Minister could clarify one point. It is my understanding that a strict marine protected area is one from which you exclude fishing. The areas he was talking about were ones in which you have habitat conservation, which is a different process. Or is he saying that in something like 20% of the coastal area covered by MPAs commercial fishing and so on is excluded? That is the question. There are different definitions of MPA. In the sense of the strictest definition, there is only about one, as I understand it.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
Given the time, I should like to write in some detail on all the areas around the United Kingdom because, in fairness to the noble Lord, I have mentioned a number of different elements of protection. So that everyone is clear, including me, it would be best to set it out in proper detail.
To conclude, this is a most valuable contribution to the outcome that we all seek, which is effective regional co-ordination for the North Sea. It is our responsibility, by working together with our neighbours, to achieve the shared objective of a clean, healthy, safe, productive and biologically diverse North Sea. In the final words of the summary, we need to do this to secure it for future generations.