Food Supply: Sustainability

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Howarth of Newport

Monday 14th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, this is a very serious issue, and the Government have been working successfully with industry under the Courtauld commitment to reduce food and packaging waste in the supply chain. It has been reduced by 7.4% since 2010, and clearly this is a continuing process. The amount of food we all waste is disgraceful.

[Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Grantchester (Lab)]

I declare my interest as a farmer receiving EU funds. Sustainability could well be enhanced through local procurement along shorter supply chains. Does the Minister agree that this could increase the supply of fresh, healthy food, reduce farming’s carbon footprint, support UK agriculture and more closely connect the consumer to the producer? If this is the case, what are Her Majesty’s Government doing to enhance the supply of local food?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, this very much goes to the heart of public procurement. Only last Monday, the Secretary of State announced that Defra is reviewing buying habits across the public sector and working across Whitehall to improve transparency when government catering contracts are due for renewal. Following the launch of Dr Peter Bonfield’s plan for public procurement, there is much more to be done on this.

[Lord Howarth of Newport]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I know that my ministerial colleagues are working with the RPA on this. We are seeking to ensure that all payments are made promptly and we are working to that effect.

[Lord Howarth of Newport]

My Lords—

Recall of MPs Bill

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Howarth of Newport

Monday 2nd March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My Lords, Amendment 4 would reduce the petition signing period from eight weeks to six weeks. On Report, we debated the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, to reduce the signing period to three weeks. The Government felt that shortening the availability of the petition to this length of time would make the petition process unworkable, especially for those who wished to sign by post. However, it was clear from that debate that the decision to increase the number of signing places to a maximum of 10 could allow us to consider a reduction in the signing period.

We have listened carefully to the arguments put forward for reducing the signing period and believe that a reduction to six weeks is a sensible and practicable step. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, and also to the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, who is not in his place today, whose amendments at previous stages of the Bill’s consideration have raised this question. Having reflected on the issue, we consider that a shortened period of six weeks would strike the right balance between tightening the process and enabling proper access to signing. It would allow sufficient time for electors to consider the campaigns for and against signing the petition and enable those who wish to sign by post to make an application.

Additionally, the revised period would still allow the petition officer to check and approve postal applications in good time for signing sheets to be issued and returned, including making the important check that an elector has not already signed the petition in person. A further benefit of shortening the signing period, which was referred to in previous debates, is that constituents will find out the result of the petition sooner, and if a by-election is to be held, this would enable the election of their Member of Parliament more quickly.

In considering this issue, we have taken very seriously the views of your Lordships’ House and we believe that the amendment is a sensible improvement to the operation of the recall petition. The amendment has the support of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, and the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, for which I am most grateful. For those reasons, I beg to move.

[Lord Howarth of Newport]

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Wallace of Saltaire, for their characteristic generosity and their willingness to reflect upon the issues that were raised in the debate on Report, to meet me and my noble friend on the Front Bench, and the decision they have reached to reduce the signing period from eight weeks to six weeks.

There were four essential arguments in connection with this. One was that, as a result of the most welcome amendment which the Government themselves brought in on Report increasing the number of signing places to up to 10, there will not be the same difficulty for registered electors to find their way to somewhere where they can sign.

There is also the question of cost. We do not want to prolong this process and its associated costs any longer than is necessary. Maintaining no fewer than two staff, I should think, who will work quite long hours for eight weeks and in up to 10 signing places, with the costs of premises and equipment, will be pretty expensive. Indeed, I would be interested to know if the Government have made any calculation or estimate of how much per week they anticipate this process to cost. Anyway, it is highly desirable that it should be kept to the minimum.

Another argument was very strongly made by my noble friend Lady Hayter of Kentish Town that it is most important to minimise the period during which citizens in a particular constituency would not have the services of their MP available to them, whether in the constituency or in the House of Commons.

Finally, what is for me the most important argument is that it is desirable to minimise the period of what I think will be an intensely unpleasant political process. We will see journalistic vultures circling around what they take to be political carrion. As people witness this experience—I hope to goodness that they never will and that the provisions of this Bill never have to be operated in practice—I fear that the unpleasant nature of this political process will deepen the revulsion that many feel for politics and that any gain in accountability will be more than offset by an increase in public disaffection with politics.

While I do not want in any way to be churlish, I think that the Government have perhaps been unduly timid in reducing the signing period from eight weeks to only six weeks. My amendment on Report proposed a period of three weeks and that was perhaps a little optimistic, but I would have thought that the necessary processes could be transacted in four or five weeks. I was unpersuaded by what was a key argument put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Gardiner of Kimble, that ample time should be made available for people who do not already have postal votes but decide that they would like to sign this petition by way of a postal procedure to be able to apply to do so. I think that that is a bit of a luxury that is not really needed. At all events, the noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth, pointed out to us in an earlier debate that a whole general election can be conducted in four weeks; we are about to have a general election conducted over a period of five and a half weeks including the Easter holiday. So I think that insisting on a period of no fewer than six weeks for a petition, which would find its conclusive result if only 10% of the electors sign it, is unduly timid.

However, as I say, I do not wish to be churlish and I am genuinely grateful. A reduction from eight weeks to six weeks is 25% off, and that is pretty good. I thank both noble Lords and I am happy to support the government amendment.

Recall of MPs Bill

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Howarth of Newport

Tuesday 10th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

Another interpretation is that if you have too rushed an arrangement and want to vote by post, along with the problems that I have outlined about three weeks, this will be a serious and rare event. In replying to the noble Lord, Lord Hughes, I think that there should be a time in which mature reflection is permitted. If someone knows that they have a decent length of time either to send their vote back by post or to go to the signing place, this encourages them rather than causing in them a knee-jerk reaction from the last thing they read in the press. Because this is a serious move, a period of calm is required and would be provided.

If it was all to be condensed into a very short period, we could possibly have the hiatus and the cherries and the Madame Defarge scenario, whereas we want this to be taken seriously by Parliament; and if that happens, we want it also to be taken seriously by electors who will not in my view feel rushed by the arguments of one or the other side. They should have some time in which to reflect properly on the matter.

While I understand the kind and good intentions that the noble Lord has portrayed in not wanting to seek an unattractive scenario, I think that the eight weeks provide the calm reflection that I hope there would be abroad for this very serious matter, and so I ask him to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Howarth of Newport]

My Lords, I am very grateful to everybody who has spoken and certainly to all who have expressed support for the principle of what I was trying to achieve in putting this amendment forward.

Even at this stage, I hope that I can persuade the noble Lord, Lord Gardiner of Kimble, who has been conciliatory and flexible on the number of signing places, to be equally conciliatory and flexible on the matter of the duration of the signing period. As the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, put it so strongly and effectively, there should be an interaction between these two factors. The Government have helpfully and constructively moved on the one, but so far the noble Lord, Lord Gardiner of Kimble, has given us only half a loaf. If he is prepared to reflect on it he will see that there ought to be an interaction between these two considerations.

I have not at any point sought to suggest that we should so abbreviate the signing period that it becomes in practical terms impossible to conduct its administration properly. I also do not think that these decisions about recall should be taken hastily—far from it, because I agree with everybody who has stressed just how important these decisions are. Equally, we do not want to be dilatory about this process, partly for the reasons that I developed as I moved the amendment. We run a risk of some extended, gratuitous unpleasantness that is bad for political life and for our country. I know that the Minister fully understands the significance of that.

There are other factors. There is cost. These are stringent times. How can it possibly be justified to keep these signing places open, staffed by paid officials, for more weeks than they are genuinely needed? My noble friend Lady Hayter made another important point for which I am most grateful. She drew attention to the fact that if the petition signing period runs for eight weeks, and should there not be the 10% of registered voters signing the petition, the Member of Parliament whose future is in question will be absent from the service of his or her constituents, and absent from the House of Commons, for the whole of that period. That seems to be a very important case.

The Minister has expressed in very general terms the desirability of people not being made to rush their judgment in this matter. I think there is realistic scope for a compromise to reduce the period of eight weeks to what would be the necessary minimum to enable constituents to reflect adequately on the important decision they have to take and to implement that decision by way of signing the petition, whether directly or by post. Is the Minister willing, between now and Third Reading, to think further about it and perhaps meet us to discuss it? I hope that he will not be as adamant as the first part of his remarks just now seemed to suggest. I invite him to tell us now whether he sees an opportunity for some further consideration of this—which, it seems to be agreed all around the Chamber, it is desirable to do—to reduce the signing period to the necessary minimum and no longer. Is the Minister willing to give us that undertaking?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I do not think I am in a position to give an undertaking. The truth is that thought should be given towards any stage in your Lordships’ House. But I cannot promise to bring anything further back because, for the reasons I have outlined, the Government are of the view that three weeks is not sufficient and they think that eight weeks is the right length for mature discussion. Of course, I am always very happy to see the noble Lord, but I am not in a position to promise that I would be able to support anything beyond the Government’s current position.

[Lord Howarth of Newport]

I completely understand that the noble Lord is not in a position to give a solid undertaking that he will introduce an amendment that changes the signing period. But I take it from what he has just said that he is willing to enter into a discussion with his ministerial colleagues. He has said that he is willing to talk to some of us about this. That would be genuinely desirable. I think that somewhere between three weeks and eight weeks, we can arrive at a better span of time which should be agreeable to everybody. On that basis, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

National Gallery: Visitor Services

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Howarth of Newport

Thursday 5th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, this is precisely why almost all the senior and large museums and galleries in this country have gone along this path. There are no demons in this. It is all about enhancing the staff’s arrangements, including in part of the arrangement for the National Gallery to pay above the London living wage.

[Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, if even the National Gallery, which is strongly placed to raise money from non-governmental sources, is driven to such last-resort cost-cutting and unable to maintain its planned programme of opening—and yesterday galleries were extensively closed because of industrial action—does the Minister, who cares about the arts, worry that his Government’s onslaught on the culture budget if it continues will usher in, literally, a new dark age?

Libraries: Funding

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Howarth of Newport

Thursday 22nd January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, my noble friend refers to the library service. There is still a strong library service in England, with over 3,142 public libraries, and local authorities invested £757.3 million in them in the last financial year. William Sieghart’s report was published on 18 December and presents recommendations for the Government and local authorities working in partnership. Many local authorities of all political persuasions are making some very interesting innovations in their library services.

[Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, if the Government reduce resources for local authorities by 30% to 40%, with inevitably larger reductions in available funding for discretionary services, how can local authorities comply with their statutory duty to provide the comprehensive and efficient public library service which he mentioned?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I could take your Lordships through many local authorities where important changes are taking place, such as Devon, which is expanding into community hubs; Newcastle upon Tyne; Northamptonshire, where there are enterprise hubs, partnerships between Northamptonshire libraries and Northamptonshire Enterprise Partnership; and Suffolk, where there is an independent organisation with charitable status. All those local authorities of different political persuasions are doing great things with fewer resources. No one is saying that there will be more resources; we all have to deal with the cuts, which all parties now recognise are necessary for the national economy. In the main, however, local authorities are doing a very good job.

Recall of MPs Bill

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Howarth of Newport

Monday 19th January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, this legislation is intended to help promote and restore confidence in the political system. Yet the absence of transparency, clarity and regularity in campaign financing in the politics of this country is one of the principal causes of cynicism and disaffection from politics. It therefore seems contradictory and strange that apparently so little thought has gone into the provisions of the Bill regarding campaign financing. It is singularly important that the provisions be clear and universally acceptable. I look forward to the Minister explaining what he believes the justification can be for the vagueness and looseness of the current arrangements, the manner in which they will permit outside intervention from people whose intervention we would have thought was not legitimate, and how he proposes in the light of those considerations to strengthen and improve the legislation.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her amendment. Concern has rightly been expressed by noble Lords and in the other place over the impact of “big money” on the recall process.

Amendment 60, however, focuses on the opposite end of the scale—namely, the lower limit above which campaigners will have to become accredited. The noble Baroness’s amendment will lower this from £500, as currently proposed, to £50. She rightly asked about the justification for £500. It is based on the previous spending limit for third-party campaigning for or against a candidate at the election. Indeed, the current limit is £700. This will, we believe, therefore permit local groups to carry out a certain amount of campaigning, such as printing and distributing leaflets. That is the reason for that number.

However, all campaigners will be subject to rules on the content of their literature, including imprints, as well as the rules on acting in concert, notional petition expenses and pre-election expenses. Once a campaigner becomes accredited, a significant number of additional registration and reporting rules kick in. We believe that these will deliver transparency over what is being spent and who is providing the financial backing.

Recall of MPs Bill

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Howarth of Newport

Monday 19th January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My Lords, this has been an interesting debate and I have listened carefully and seriously to all the points that have been made. I know I am repeating this point, but it should not be forgotten that for a recall petition to be opened in the first place a Member of Parliament would have had to have committed serious wrongdoing and to have met one of the three conditions in the Bill. All of your Lordships know very well what those three triggers are.

The noble Lord, Lord Howarth of Newport, raised the concern that a future Parliament might do this or that with other triggers. We obviously cannot bind what another Parliament might wish to do. This Bill before us is about three triggers which involve serious wrongdoing. That is the right balance. That is the point which the other place had come to as well. We believe that reaching the figure of 10% of constituents signing the petition would show a significant level of support for a recall and would trigger a by-election in which the sitting MP could stand.

[Lord Howarth of Newport]

The noble Lord is invariably fair-minded. Is he really relaxed about and content with arrangements whereby someone could be subject to a petition by 10% of their electors precipitating this trial by ordeal, which would then take the process beyond the eight week period through to a by-election, while it is entirely possible that 90% of their constituents thought that there should not be a by-election and that recall was the wrong thing to do but have no opportunity under the Government’s proposals to express that view?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I understand that, of course, but the whole purpose of the legislation is for the three triggers to be for serious wrongdoing. If a Member of Parliament has been found guilty, convicted or suspended up to the level, it is a view that there should be an opportunity for constituents to decide whether there should be a recall and then, if a certain threshold is reached—noble Lords have made different points about the level of that threshold—there will be a by-election. It will then be for 100% of the electorate to come to a view about what they want to do for their future representation.

[Lord Howarth of Newport]

Does the Minister accept the very powerful point made by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester that in reality it is hardly likely that an MP who had been subject to everything that will have occurred in the run-up to the result of the petition would actually want to contest a by-election? Is he not actually being drummed out of Parliament through this process in a way that must leave the Minister deeply uneasy?

Devolution: Arts and Culture

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Howarth of Newport

Monday 15th December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, culture plays a big part in our relationship with many countries around the world. I am not briefed on whether the UK Government themselves are helping with the Patagonian exchange, but if one goes to Patagonia, there are Welsh-speaking villages and communities there, so it is important that Patagonia is part of our cultural links. I very much support what the noble Lord said.

[Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister recognise that, in the days when local government was treated with respect and enjoyed large freedoms, accountable not to the Treasury but to its own ratepayers, cities thrived and many of them engaged in remarkable patronage of the arts? Unless the Government are willing to allow greater freedoms to cities across the United Kingdom and not just the ones that the Chancellor particularly favours, will not the prospects for funding for the arts outside London be pretty bleak?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, in fairness I do not think that the prospect for arts funding outside London is bleak. The increase in funding outside London is welcome. The noble Lord mentioned the Chancellor, but the Autumn Statement mentioned government support for £79 million of capital funding towards the construction of a new theatre and exhibition space, Factory, in Manchester, and the Great Exhibition, which is of course across all northern towns. The Government are also supporting the Glasgow School of Art, for example, following the devastating fire there. There are many examples of what is happening around the country.

Arts Council: Spending Outside London

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Howarth of Newport

Thursday 20th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I do not think that the arts sector feels that it should be immune to the current economic conditions. Restoring the national economy is absolutely vital to ensure that we have the funding we need for the arts. That is the important point. In fact, I think that the arts sector recognises that in the last spending review it had a positive outcome, given national conditions.

[Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not inconceivable that the Arts Council should cease to fund our great national cultural institutions, many of which are, for historical reasons, located in London? I join the Minister and other noble Lords in pressing the point about local authorities. If we are to make up the deficit of funding in the regions, surely it is important to find better scope to enable local authorities to support the arts, as well as continuing to diversify various sources of funding. Should we not congratulate the Arts Council on the extent to which it has succeeded in sustaining funding for the arts outside London?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I think that it is universally and widely accepted that the Arts Council is doing a very good job in difficult circumstances that we all acknowledge. There have been some interesting developments regarding the way in which a number of innovative councils have been looking at how to deliver services on the arts and heritage more efficiently, whether by setting up charitable trusts, creating mutuals, outsourcing or sharing services. There are many good examples of local authorities of all political compositions doing well in that.

Arts: Lottery Funding

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Howarth of Newport

Thursday 10th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My noble friend raises issues about other lotteries—she mentioned the Health Lottery. The market is changing. The Gambling Commission is providing us with further advice on how the markets are operating, which we will consider before consulting later in the year. The changes in the lottery and gambling markets have made it clear to us that any consultation on society lotteries needs to be far more wide-ranging than was originally thought.

[Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, if the principle of additionality is to mean what we all want it to mean in practice across the country, will the Minister talk to his friends at the Department for Communities and Local Government? So long as local authorities are so severely constrained in their ability to support the arts, it will not be possible to have the kind of thriving arts ecology across the whole country that I know he wants and we all want.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

That is why I said in my original Answer that it is important that we have a mixed-funding arrangement. It serves us very well to have state funding, lottery funding and philanthropic and corporate sponsorship. The noble Lord is right: local government has huge challenges, as does the nation, about spending. Local government is still the largest investor in the arts, and I hope that it will remain so. There are challenges, but there are enormous success stories where local authorities have recognised that arts and heritage are important for tourism and visitor numbers. There are many examples of cities and towns around the country, Hull and Liverpool among them, which are successful because of their artistic investment.

Ratification of the Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Howarth of Newport

Monday 12th May 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, again I understand my noble friend’s position. It will help if I say that, because of anticipation of this country’s adoption of the convention and its protocols, it already informs the Armed Forces’ law of armed conflict doctrine and training policy, particularly with regard to respect for cultural property, precautions in attack and recognition of the protective emblem.

[Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister’s words are welcome as far as they go, but will he acknowledge that Governments have on previous occasions made exactly the same commitment as he has done today, yet the situation has persisted—disgracefully—that Britain is the only significant military power not to have ratified the convention? On this one issue at least, will the coalition parties set aside their differences and agree to put this measure in the Queen’s Speech?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I am certainly not privy to the content of the Queen’s Speech. It would be fair to say that the coalition has taken forward many measures that are in the national interest. I am aware of and understand entirely the feelings of your Lordships and many outside who want legislation on this matter.

Culture: Art House Cinemas

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Howarth of Newport

Monday 4th November 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

The noble Baroness is a champion of Cambridge; I know that Bury St Edmunds in particular also has this feed-in from opera and theatre. I am well aware of the importance of that to many parts of the regions, where it is vital. I have to repeat that there is a procedure that has to be undertaken. Concerns have been raised and, as I said, it is open to interested parties to appeal on this matter. However, the problem is that when we have independence, we must mean independence.

[Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s restatement of the mission of the BFI. Nevertheless, has he noticed that it remains the case that across town the multiplex cinemas all show the same few films, whereas other films that have had excellent reviews are nowhere to be seen? What more can the Government do to support the better distribution and availability of high-quality films that are not expected to be money-spinners?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

That is where the BFI very much comes into the equation and precisely where the experts, as I call them, are leading on this particular point—to ensure that the broadest range of films is available to the public. That is one of the key priorities of the BFI, and I hope that it is successful in that quest.

Publishing: Public Lending Right

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Lord Howarth of Newport

Wednesday 22nd May 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the first thing to say is that e-lending is indeed increasing. It is still about 3% of the total, but it is undoubtedly increasing. Non-print book rights holders are currently conferred lending rights by the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. The law requires library authorities to reach appropriate agreements with non-print rights holders and with other parties on behalf of those rights holders. Indeed, library authorities offering e-lending must do so by contracting the services of third-party aggregators, who liaise with publishers on their behalf.

[Lord Howarth of Newport]

Does the Minister recognise that the authors’ public lending scheme has been very successful indeed over many years and that it has become an established part of our culture? We afford recognition to authors by way of a payment for each loan by public libraries of their physical books. Is it not now long overdue that we extended that practice to e-books and audiobooks? The Government have prevaricated for a long time. Will they now stop hanging about?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, in fact more than 23,000 writers, illustrators, photographers, translators and editors who have contributed to print books lent out by public libraries currently receive payments each year up to a maximum of £6,600. It is precisely why the Government asked William Sieghart to come forward with the review. Further work is being undertaken this year.