Procedure and Privileges

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 10th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, will the Senior Deputy Speaker consider the very appropriate plea from the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, for the greater use of the Grand Committee Room for Private Members’ Bills? I was extremely fortunate to have a private Member’s slot very high up on the ballot last year, but of course, because of the Covid constraints on the timetable, no Private Members’ Bills were taken. These Bills have been used as an extremely successful mechanism in the other place when the Government have wanted to see a minor change to the law and have used a Private Member’s Bill for that purpose.

I support the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, about those of us who have our main home outside London.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)]

My Lords, I am most grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken. Some have perhaps used the opportunity to go a little wide of the report, but that is no matter because, in a sense, I would say very strongly, it provides an opportunity for ensuring that this House is contented and harmonious and works successfully.

The noble Lord, Lord Grocott, raised the point about the use of the Moses Room. There is actually nothing in the report that says that this applies only to government Bills; as I have said, it is clearly a matter for the usual channels and the House to agree. From that point of view, there is nothing in the report that says it is just for government Bills. As we know, all Private Members’ Bills go through journeys that involve the other place as well, and many Bills that have gone from this House have not being successful in their journey through the other place—but the points are noted.

The noble Lord, Lord Cormack, raised a point about time changes. I am afraid I did not know about them but, from my work with the usual channels and the Government Chief Whip, I do know that every attention is given to making these matters straightforward. If times were changed, I am sure that that was not with intent but from necessity. What is clearly important in what the committee sought to ensure in the choice of Bills, following the letter of the Leader and the Government Chief Whip, is that they should be less complex and controversial, and should have the agreement of the usual channels. So I think it is understood, in this proposal, that great care will be taken on that.

On Tellers, it was clear from what was—yes—my baptism of fire, that the House feels strongly about the probity and importance of Divisions when we are in the right position. We are meeting as a committee on 17 January, but I think it is fair to say that, in the current circumstances, we should not be returning to the Lobbies. However, we will obviously need preparatory work and consideration on these matters.

The noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, mentioned being outside London. In another life, I spent quite a lot of time supporting rural interests and interests beyond the metropolitan mindset—some people may say metropolitan “elite”. It is desperately important that this House is drawn from across the United Kingdom. That is one reason why the start time on a Monday has always been designed to enable Peers from all parts of the kingdom to assemble here. The point is that this is an assembly; it is where we gather and where we all have the privilege of being able to have this discourse. As I live in Suffolk—not as far away as the noble Lord—I have intense sympathy with him on the interests of Peers making their contribution while living outside London and its environs.

The noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, raised the use of the Moses Room. Again, it is clearly important that this is used in a proportionate manner. I am very conscious of that in the context of scheduling business, as I know is the Government Chief Whip, particularly in these times when many noble Lords want to make a contribution.

The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, also raised Private Members’ Bills. I have taken all these points on board but, so far as the committee’s fifth report is concerned, I commend it to the House.

Committee of Selection

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Thursday 13th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I note my thanks to the Lord Speaker for the part that he played in his previous role and the support that he gave to chairs and members of committees. I welcome my noble friend to his new role, which I am sure he will perform with aplomb.

It is a privilege to serve in any capacity on a committee, and I recognise the fact that there are insufficient places. Could my noble friend consider a proposal that we look at increasing the size of committees or allow alternates to all committees rather than just some? There has been an imbalance in recent years, with some who for no fault of anyone’s were able to serve for four years on a committee and others who could serve only one and a half years. In addition to transparency and possible elections to those committees and those who serve as Back-Benchers on committees, we are all here as working Peers and we want to serve in whatever capacity we are called to, but it is important to have a sense of fairness and balance in appointments.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)]

My Lords, let me say first that I am very clear about my function, which is that I am a servant of this House. Therefore, I entirely take on board, and am very interested in, what the noble Lords and the noble Baroness—as I must now call them, rather than “my noble friends”—have said, as part of that important role as a servant of this House.

As your Lordships will understand, I have been in post for but two days. However, on the issue of composition of committees, there are a number of things that I have been seeking to tease out. Having looked at the Motions, I am inclined to say that the force of experience that your Lordships provide on these committees is nothing short of unique. It is truly exceptional what this House can provide by way of specialism.

The practice, I understand, is that all Chief Whips and the Convenor seek expressions of interest from their Members. If Members are keen to serve on particular committees, I suggest that they speak to the Chief Whips or the Convenor. But it is important to say that, in the case of any Members not so represented, I would encourage them to write to me, setting out their desire to serve on a particular committee. I will then ensure that that expression of interest is considered by the Committee of Selection at the appropriate point.

Something that I know has been under consideration is the issue of elections of committee chairs, and I understand that during the extensive committee review exercise the Liaison Committee heard evidence on that. After careful consideration, the committee took the view that the current arrangements had a number of distinct advantages. Of particular note for me was the expertise we have in this House, the fact that the composition of this House is different from the other place, and the consensual and apolitical nature of our committee work; all are important features that we ought to reflect upon. We are different, although there are obviously important similarities in the work that we do. Further to the consensual and apolitical approach to committees, from my first impressions it is very important for the committee structure to have a spread across the whole House, so that the expertise and distinct knowledge that your Lordships bring is clear.

On the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, regarding the Motions being tabled on Tuesday, I understand that it is the usual practice to reappoint committees quickly at the beginning of a new Session. The point that has been put to me—as the new boy—is that, as a result of the rotation of committee members having already taken place in January, the membership of these committees remains almost entirely the same as it was before Parliament was prorogued. As such, the Motions allow our committees to continue their important work, picking up as necessary the inquiries and activities that they were engaged in just a few weeks ago.

I have of course heard the points that were made about the Conduct Committee. Indeed, I have had a number of discussions already in the few days that I have been in this post. The House appointed four lay members to the Conduct Committee in October 2019. This followed the House’s earlier agreement to a recommendation from the Committee for Privileges and Conduct in April 2019. The decision to appoint lay members to the Conduct Committee was made by the whole House. The lay and Peer members are a cohesive group, working to oversee the Code of Conduct. I assure noble Lords that the inclusion of lay members on the internal disciplinary committee of the House is—when I asked the question—very much in the direction of travel of other legislatures and public bodies. I have noted the points that have been made by noble Lords, but I think that this scrutiny—by both your Lordships and lay members—is an important dynamic for the long-term reputation of this House.

Noble Lords have made points about the Valuing Everyone training. I am mindful of this, and of course I have been on the course. The House as a whole agreed to making the Valuing Everyone training mandatory for Members, and the independent Commissioner for Standards is therefore required by the code to look at the circumstances of all Members who do not undertake the training by the deadline set by the House. My understanding is that the commissioner is expected to report soon on this, and I look forward to that report.

UK Shellfish Sector

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Wednesday 10th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to reports of restrictions on the export of live bivalve molluscs to the European Union, what steps they are taking to support the shellfish sector in the United Kingdom.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we recognise the importance of this long-standing trade and the impact of restrictions on a valued industry. Live bivalve molluscs ready for human consumption can be exported to the EU as “products of animal origin”. The Secretary of State raised the matter of exporting from GB class B waters with EU Commissioner Kyriakides, and we are pressing for an urgent solution to enable trade to resume.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend join me in extending our good wishes and regrets to Baron Shellfish of Bridlington, which prospered as one of the success stories of the common market, selling direct to customers in the European Union in the 1970s? Because of the bureaucratic and administrative barriers to trade since 1 January, it is now ceasing to trade, which is highly regrettable.

Given the recent ban, to which my noble friend referred, on exports from the UK of live bivalve molluscs, what plans do the Government have to use the regulatory framework set up under the trade and co-operation agreement with the EU? When does he expect that the specialised committee on fisheries will be set up? This would seem to be a classic case of an ideal solution being found by talking, rather than taking retaliatory tit-for-tat action.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend’s tone. We seek to have a quick discussion with Commissioner Kyriakides about how this trade can resume. We do not believe that the legal interpretation that they are putting on the class B waters is correct. We are working very closely with stakeholders and the devolved Administrations: my right honourable friend the Secretary of State will have further discussions with the Welsh and Scottish Ministers tomorrow. We wish to resolve this matter. Of course, we want to ensure the smooth passage of exports of our excellent produce.

EU Trade and Co-operation Agreement: Fishing Industry

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Tuesday 19th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I said that there would be a £100 million programme to modernise fleets and improve and increase the fish-processing industry. I also said that the agreement involved the equivalent of 25% of the total value taken by EU vessels from UK waters going to UK fishers. This is a feature of the first section, of five and a half years, of our new relationship as a sovereign state. I am sorry if the noble Lord thinks that my answers are not adequate, but the investment we intend to undertake is because we think there is a very strong future for British fishing.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

Will my noble friend join me in regretting that fish are going to rot, having made their way to a French port? Will he join me in pressing for training, so that the computer problems experienced on both sides of the channel can be resolved as soon as possible? Does he agree with me that, once again, inshore fishermen are the poor relations? They do not have exclusive access up to 12 nautical miles, as they were promised; nor have they been given an additional quota, which we did not need to leave the European Union for them to receive.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con) [V]]

My noble friend is right that we should bear down on any waste, particularly on this issue. That is why, at official and ministerial level, there have been meetings with the Dutch, Irish and French to ensure that there is flow of food from this important sector, as well as a recognition that we need to ensure that companies know what documentation is required. On the issue of six to 12 nautical miles, access by EU vessels to the UK is limited to a number of ICES areas—the southern North Sea, the channel and the Bristol Channel. We want a vibrant future for all parts, but we understand that the inshore sector is important and will work with it on this.

Agricultural Transition Plan

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Tuesday 8th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome the Statement and pay tribute to my noble friend for his patient and painstaking approach during the passage of the Agriculture Bill—now the Agriculture Act. I will focus in particular on how all three strands of support outlined in the Statement and White Paper are more of an environmental charter than perhaps sustainable farming and a move to food production, with potentially less reliance on imports.

I press my noble friend to understand the implications for upland farmers. He said that they would be well placed to benefit from land management systems, but how will that be when they do not own the land? Some 47% of farms in North Yorkshire are tenanted, so I would like to understand how this will be beneficial to them. Many have a bent towards livestock farming, at which they have been very successful, but they do depend on the current stewardship and payment schemes. Going forward, I would like to know that a heavy emphasis on food production will continue, so that farmers who do not own but tenant the land will continue to benefit from the proposals for sustainable farming set out in the Statement today.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. We have worked together on these matters, which is why I go back to the importance of codesign in the tests and trials. We have contracted 72 tests and trials involving 5,000 farmers and land managers. We have nine tests and trials in upland areas: three are taking place across multiple regions, two in the south-west, two in the north-west, one in the West Midlands and one in Yorkshire. We are working with a total of 811 farmers and land managers. Our portfolio of tests and trials involves at least 76 tenant farmers, of whom approximately 62% are upland tenant farmers.

Clearly, we want to ensure that there is a vibrant tenanted sector in this country. I am well aware of the importance of the uplands. I might diverge from my noble friend here. If we had more time, we could go through the many schemes that are coming forward, whether for owner occupiers or tenants, where productivity grants and environmental schemes will be extremely valuable, whatever the tenure. We want to ensure that these schemes are of value to farmers across the piece as they seek to produce excellent food and enhance the environment for us.

Farming: New Entrants

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 23rd November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of opportunities for new entrants into farming; and what steps they are taking to increase any such opportunities.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register. The Government are working with the skills leadership group to introduce a professional body for agriculture and horticulture to promote the sector and the vibrant careers in it. New technologies are transforming food production, generating opportunities that require skills in farming, environment and business. The Government are also developing a new entrants’ scheme to provide funding for councils and other landowners, providing opportunities for new entrants.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend will recall that, during the passage of the Agriculture Act, a lot of emphasis was placed on opportunities for new entrants into farming, just as he described; I welcome that. Does he share my concern that a number of councils, including Scarborough Borough Council, are seeking to dispose of agricultural land, including tenant farmers’ land, from their portfolio? This will lead to fewer opportunities for tenant farmers. Will my noble friend and the Government address this grave issue?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My Lords, we value the role that council farms play in providing opportunities for new entrants. That is why we want to incentivise councils to retain and invest in their farm estates so that they can continue to provide opportunities into the future.

Fisheries Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Consideration of Commons amendments & Ping Pong (Hansard) & Ping Pong (Hansard): House of Lords & Ping Pong (Minutes of Proceedings): House of Lords
Thursday 12th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am here because of the problems I experienced with my microphone yesterday. I have two brief questions for my noble friend. I am half-Danish, so I welcome anything that can be done to help the Faroese. Does he not share my concern that this agreement with the Faroes is completely asymmetrical? The noble Lord, Lord Teverson might also have made this point. From memory of the rollover trade agreement, we export £90 million of goods to them and they export £270 million of products to us—most of which are fish. This will not help Scottish and other fishermen in this country. I agree to it, but we must accept that it is asymmetrical and not in the country’s best interests.

I have a hazy recollection of studying international law at university—just after we joined the European Union. Denmark has always claimed historic rights to fish in the North Sea. I understood—from an impeccable source at the Daily Express—that it has been preparing a case to put, presumably, before the International Court of Justice to maintain those historic rights. I am not expecting my noble friend to reply today—he may wish to write to me and share it with other colleagues. Is he aware of this hazy recollection of mine that the Danes had historic fishing rights and that they are going to resurrect them?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My Lords, we agreed to a treaty in 1999. We have worked closely with Minister Ewing, who is quite rightly ferocious in his support of Scottish fishing interests. We are working collaboratively with the Faroe Islands, respecting an international arrangement. On the historic rights, as I am not the Fisheries Minister but a custodian of this Bill I am not aware of any illegal activity. I had better write to my noble friend so that those who know can give an authorised version.

Agriculture Bill

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Report stage & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords & Report: 1st sitting & Report: 1st sitting: House of Lords
Tuesday 15th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I ask my noble friend where the business plan that he says will be published in the autumn will be published. I am slightly concerned that “in the autumn” could be interpreted as 21 December, and that the plan could come out after both Houses have risen. Having served on the EFRA Committee for a number of years and looked very closely at the budgets, I am not quite sure which particular spending would be interrupted by Amendment 30.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

I would love to give your Lordships a precise date. The Government understand the need to bring forward this information as soon as possible; I said autumn. We in Defra are seized of that importance. I will look at Amendment 30. All I can say is that our lawyers looked at it and advised me that that was the case but, if my noble friend would permit, it might help to have some legal expertise on why there was that interpretation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am disappointed, unless I have misunderstood, that my noble friend did not reply to the basic question of why we cannot have a 12-month notification of the first plan. I am no farmer myself—the closest I got was having two fields on which we claimed a tiny amount, which I have now left my brother to get on with.

I understand that, according to the Companion, I can take this opportunity to put another question to the Minister. The Government have spoken about easing access: how do they imagine easing access to the existing countryside stewardship scheme and new measures to assist improvements in productivity through the transition period? That would go some way to allaying the fears. I have to say that this is a key concern of both the Tenant Farmers Association and the NFU in the briefings I have had from them. Obviously, they represent the lion’s share of farmers.

The Government have talked about a new interim scheme, called the sustainable farming initiative, but surely this would just add to the complexity of an already busy policy space, particularly when existing schemes are available and just need to be improved. Might not such a sustainable farming initiative take Defra’s eye off the ball in properly developing what we all want to see—a good ELM scheme? Will my noble friend reply to that and to my original question as to why we are not having 12 months’ notice of the original business plan?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My Lords, I think I have been very clear that we will be announcing the funding for the early years of the agricultural transition period, including direct payments, later in the autumn—I hope as soon as possible. I cannot say any more than that. As I said, that announcement will provide much of the reassurance that I suspect noble Lords and farmers are looking for about those early years. I have set out the maximum reductions for 2021. Those are all designed, as I said, to enable the Government, at the beginning of the transition and the reforms, to provide extra countryside stewardship agreements and productivity grants to farmers, which I think will be very desirable to start next year, and the national pilot for the future ELM schemes.

All this is designed to combine all that we want to do in enhancing food production and the environment. It is sensible to start these schemes next year, and the resources, through the reductions, will be there to work on this. It is a seven-year transition and the Government are very mindful of the manifesto pledges about the resources that will be available to this agricultural budget. We intend to support and work with farmers to make a better scheme, with a public return for it. I do not think there is much more I can say to my noble friend, other than that this Government have shown by our commitments to funding that we are four-square behind the farmer, but I say candidly that the current system is poor value for money.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My Lords, I have been very clear that the Government are bringing forward schemes of a countryside and environmental aspect, which will be funded through reductions in the direct payments. This is what we want: to start sustainable environmental and countryside stewardship schemes. This is all about what we want to do with farmers, as part of a major plank of this legislation. I am beginning to wonder whether it is me or whether noble Lords do not want to press the receive button for what I am seeking to say.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I have to express disappointment that I have not received the assurances I sought, but I do not wish to test the opinion of the House. I wish to withdraw my amendment.

Agriculture Bill

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Committee stage & Committee: 7th sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 7th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 28th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I am most grateful to the noble Lord; that is an important point. The department is working on all those matters, because we recognise that we need a successful trading agreement, and we are mindful of the importance of the speedy passage of products, particularly in the food sector. The department is fully seized of and is working on these matters so that we have the resources and personnel in order to effect what the noble Lord is seeking.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for taking us to this point. I do not think he has satisfied the Committee; I will return to that. However, I thank him most fulsomely for his approachability, patience and ability to cover such a wide range of subjects, not just this evening but throughout the proceedings.

I add my thanks to the clerks, the Public Bill Office, the Government Whips’ Office, the broadcasting and digital services—without whom we would have struggled to even begin to discuss this—and, especially, the Bill team, who have been here at all hours of the day and night as we have discussed this.

I was delighted when I heard that a commission was being set up, having first secured a Question for Short Debate on 25 February this year asking what steps the Government were taking

“to establish a trade standards commission in advance of negotiating trade deals.”—[Official Report, 25/2/20; col. GC 67.]

I have found, both in the other place and in this House, that I have been advised to follow the advice of my noble friend Lord Randall of Uxbridge. I urge my noble friend the Minister—as he regroups and as we leave once proceedings have concluded this evening—to consider that the best possible solution would be for him to use his very good offices and come forward with a compromise amendment, pulling out some of the key themes on which there has been a huge consensus. However, there have been one or two noble Lords we have not been able to persuade at this stage.

I would like to meet the Minister’s lawyers in the department to discuss whether or not this will be compatible with the World Trade Organization. My information is that, according to the WTO, exemptions are allowed for countries to set their own standards, based on the science, in limited circumstances, applying measures

“only to the extent necessary to protect animal, plant and human life or health”,

which we also discussed in the context of Amendment 256.

I regret that my noble friend the Minister missed the opportunity to put my mind, and those of the noble Lord, Lord Purvis of Tweed, and others, to rest. Noble Lords asked what the relationship will be with the existing expert trading and agriculture commission—it has various titles. We did not get a reply to that, which was unfortunate. I believe that the Trade and Agriculture Commission is the body best suited to set out the detail and to consider what the criteria will be on reaching each of the trade agreements that come before the House.

I do not agree with the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, on everything, but we did have—as he reminded the House this evening—major success on the Trade Bill, with a number of amendments adopted which I now consider to be government policy. It is absolutely essential, whether we are discussing the Agriculture Bill, the Trade Bill, the immigration Bill or the Environment Bill, that we say the same thing on each Bill.

I am delighted that my noble friend the Minister has recognised the remit of the commission, but I am disappointed that it is going to last for only six months. I think the mood of the Committee this evening is that this is not long enough; it should be permanent and should look at the text of each individual agreement and give its views on those.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis of Tweed, said that the time has to be now. I believe that this is the Bill and this is the occasion and, if not this evening, I beg leave to return to this group of amendments and to the themes that we have discussed. However, for the moment, I beg leave to withdraw my Amendment 270.

Agriculture Bill

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Committee stage & Committee: 5th sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 5th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 21st July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I can say to the noble Earl and other noble Lords that I have the matter strongly in my mind.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

I was not going to pursue this, but my noble friend’s answer has perplexed me. He said the Government wish to phase out direct payments as they provide poor value for money. The whole thrust of the debate on Amendment 143 this afternoon is that if whatever will replace direct payments is not in position, is it wise to start phasing out direct payments at that time? Can my noble friend not permit himself a degree of flexibility in this regard?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the Government have sought that flexibility in how we reduce the payments, as I say. Although we will make announcements on funding for the early years of agricultural transition, we have also provided that flexibility for unforeseen circumstances in which, for instance, we would need to extend the agricultural transition period.

We want to start in 2021 because this is a journey—to pick up some of the points at the beginning—about how we work with health and harmony. How do we ensure, working with farmers, that we produce very good food and enhance the environment? Of course, I take the point that we must get the system working well, but the prize in all this—public money going to support farmers in enhancing the environment—is a very desirable thing.

Agriculture Bill

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Committee stage & Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 14th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I will have to look again at Amendment 60. The construct is about where, following the Health and Harmony consultation we undertook, it was decided that we should recognise support for farmers in a post-CAP world. It was recognised that we needed to put food production and food security in the Bill, and we have put them in. This is the difficulty when you have improvements in iterations. They were valuable new iterations, but the point about rewarding food production is that, with better fair dealing, the farmer gets a reward from the market. They do not as yet for the purposes in Clause 1(1)(a) to (j), and we think that is where the reward should be.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering [V]]

My Lords, I am grateful to all who have contributed to this group of amendments. There were almost 40 contributors, including the Minister and me. It has been a vigorous debate and almost all noble Lords were united.

I am grateful for the response from the Minister. My remaining concern, as has been reflected in the questions, including those following his speech and his response to them, is that food production should be considered a public good. I am not quite sure that we have established that yet. Also, I remain deeply concerned —as, I believe, do other noble Lords—about the future of food security. We have not had and will not have sight of the Dimbleby report on food strategy, in which a lot of this will be dealt with, according to my noble friend said. That is regrettable. But the hour is late. For the moment, I will withdraw this amendment, but I reserve the right to return to it later. I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 35.

Fisheries Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Report stage & Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard) & Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 24th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering [V]]

I am increasingly alarmed by what my noble friend says. This seems to be a step backwards. We heard clear undertakings at Second Reading and in Committee that we would continue to take the science from the tried-and-tested research capability to which we contribute financially at present and whose excellent experts we previously heard from in the EU Environment Sub-Committee of our European Union Committee. I am alarmed that there is any question of us moving away from the international science community. As we have established, we do not have unique control over the fish. They move around. I want an assurance that we will not look at moving away in the next five or 10 years, as well as a further commitment from my noble friend that our current commitment to financing ICES after 31 December this year is assured.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, we may be at cross purposes here. We have no intention of not using the best science. In fact, I have worked collaboratively with ICES. I assure my noble friend and your Lordships that there is no intention of doing anything other than seeking the best scientific evidence available. That is why we are working with ICES, why ICES has an international reputation and why we have a very strong record here. My noble friend asked about the next five to 10 years. I cannot commit on what a further Government might want to do, of course, but I can say categorically that this Government work closely with ICES, which contributes in many respects to ensuring that we have the best science and the best scientific advice. The scientific objective in the Bill could not be clearer. I am troubled and will therefore write to my noble friend because we may be at cross purposes. There is no intention of doing anything other than going forward with the best scientific advice.

Fisheries Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Committee stage & Committee: 4th sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 4th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 11th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I seek clarification as I raised a number of points earlier in the Bill relating to this issue. The amendment is useful in that regard to tweak information out of my noble friend. I wondered what the background was to the move away from eliminating discards to this discard prevention charging scheme. Is it from the model developed in New Zealand, and are the Government satisfied that that model is working better now than when there were initial teething problems?

I would be grateful if the Minister would clarify, but I understand that this provision is not deemed to apply in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Has he had any discussions with the devolved Administrations to see if they are proposing to go down this path at a future stage? I understand that the Scottish Government may bring forward their own Scottish fisheries Bill in this regard; I simply do not know the answer to that.

In Clause 28, how does my noble friend imagine the discard prevention charges being monitored? The way that subsection (4)(a) and (b) is drafted could indicate that this is a voluntary scheme. Are the Government minded to link the scheme to the REM that we discussed earlier, and would that involve cameras on boats as well as other equipment?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her proposed amendment, and as I have made clear in Committee and at Second Reading, the United Kingdom remains fully committed to ending the extremely wasteful practice of discarding. Now that we are an independent coastal state, the UK can develop a new discards policy that is best suited to our marine environment and our fishing industry. It is important that this new policy reflects the complexity of UK fisheries, including our mixed fisheries, where we have many different stocks in the same area, which can make it difficult to avoid unwanted bycatch completely.

In mixed fisheries, when the quota for bycatch stocks is exhausted, fishers are effectively unable to go fishing for their target species. This is because they cannot lawfully catch and land bycatch stocks without quota, but at the same time cannot avoid the bycatch stock when trying to fish their target species. This problem, termed choke, can lead to whole fisheries being closed. This has serious economic consequences for those fishers and coastal communities who rely on those fisheries. That is why we need a pragmatic balance between ensuring that bycatch is minimised—and where possible eliminated—and enabling fishers to continue to fish where appropriate.

Fisheries Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Committee stage & Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 9th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I repeat that the requirement on the UK to limit its fleet will become part of retained EU law.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

My Lords, I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to this little group of amendments and explained their concerns. I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister, who I hope has put my mind at rest. Obviously, this is something I will keep an eye on, and I will share his reply with the noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose. With the permission of the Committee, I wish to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

All I will say to the noble Lord is that some amendments referred to, for instance, cameras or whatever. If he will allow me, I will move into areas that might be more in tune with some of the other points. I agree with noble Lords that this is an area where the range of technologies and abilities are going to be immensely helpful in what we all want to achieve: a vibrant ecosystem, marine conservation, and sustainability.

The UK Government also recognise the effectiveness of introducing a requirement for vessels to operate a vessel monitoring system for fisheries enforcement purposes. This is a satellite-based monitoring system, which at regular intervals provides data to the fisheries authorities on the location, course and speed of a vessel. This provides a picture of fishing activity which can support targeted enforcement action, which is why it is currently a requirement for all UK-registered vessels over 12 metres in length, but this is not prescribed through primary legislation.

Defra ran a public consultation in February 2019 to introduce inshore vessel monitoring systems—IVMS—for all British fishing vessels under 12 metres in length operating in English waters. In its response to the consultation, Defra concluded that IVMS would be introduced and that it would bring forward the required statutory instrument. The requirement will also apply to all English-registered vessels wherever they are fishing. I understand that the devolved Administrations are adopting similar policy proposals; picking up on the point of the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, here the devolved Administrations, entirely within their gift, are adopting similar policy proposals.

The balance the UK Government are trying to achieve is a proportionate and practical approach to monitoring and enforcement that reflects the risk of discarding. This includes factors such as the fishery being exploited, the type of gear being used and the size of the vessel. Further, in respect of Amendment 80A as it relates to foreign vessels, we are also clear that we wish to ensure a level playing field between UK-registered vessels and any foreign-registered vessels which we allow to fish in our waters. In principle, ensuring that the same standards apply to foreign vessels as to our own is a sound concept.

We wish to conclude the trials and assess them. We recognise that enhanced monitoring has huge potential benefits and I am genuinely grateful to all noble Lords who have raised this matter. It is extremely serious and we need to undertake more work to come forward with further proposals on it.

On the points raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, on the catch certificate app, obviously the safety of fishers is paramount. While it is important that catch records be submitted as soon as practically possible, this should take place only once the vessel and its crew are in a safe place. Catch records ought to be submitted in port when it is safe to do so, not at sea. We know that most fishers operate in good faith and make efforts to comply with catch recording guidance, but I thought it helpful to say that we want to be pragmatic about these points and have an overriding objective of keeping people safe.

I turn to the requirement in Amendment 124 to develop a framework to tackle illegal, unreported and unregulated—IUU—fishing. The Government agree that we should seek to eliminate IUU fishing and remain committed to co-operating globally to this end. The EU’s IUU regulation will be incorporated into UK law as retained EU law. The UK aims to be a global leader in the fight against IUU fishing.

I was interested in the exchange between the noble Baroness, Lady Young of Old Scone, and the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on the fisheries management plans. I fully intend for us to have this meeting. I will ask scientists to come to it, because obviously the fisheries management plan was intended to be a new insertion into this second Bill precisely to ensure that every stock is managed and fished sustainably. I would like the opportunity, before we get too jaundiced about it, to work together with noble Lords to see, with the scientists, what we can make of it and how best to take it forward, because it is an opportunity to make sure that the management plans of all stocks are in good order.

The noble Lord, Lord Krebs, raised MSY. I am very happy to talk to him about it. MSY is—I note the number of eminent people he referred to—internationally accepted. However, if I recall right, we recognised at Second Reading that it is just one tool, which is why we have included a range of sustainability objectives in the Bill. As the noble Lord will know well, ICES provides advice about MSY. I was interested in what the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, said on this. MSY is internationally accepted. I am very happy to discuss MSY with the noble Lord; it is a term used both in this country and internationally, so it would be a personal endeavour of mine to understand what other points he wishes to make.

In this context, I hope that I have explained the work already in hand on REM. We recognise that this is an extremely important area both now and for the future. We are bringing forward these proposals, but for the sake of this debate I hope my noble friend feels able to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

My Lords, I am grateful for this debate. I am stung by the words of the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, who said I was being absolutist—which is probably very fair—but we have had a very good discussion here.

We can trade all the experts we like. I was particularly taken by Pat Birnie, who was a one-time adviser to the then Government, and she taught me international law of the sea. I wish I retained all that she told me, for the purposes of this debate. On maximum sustainable yield, that is a wider debate that we have to have because it is my understanding, confirmed by the Minister, that we have international obligations, such as the Johannesburg Declaration on Sustainable Development which we agreed in 2002. We have to look at the wider implications of these international obligations, to which we have subscribed, in the context of moving away from the common fisheries policy to the new regime set out under the Bill.

I was delighted that my noble friend explained the results of the consultation as regards the under-10s, because that is a very particular category. I am now much more aware of why we need a lead-in period, if we are to introduce these for over-10s. This is, I am sure, something we can return to in the separate debate on the fisheries management plans and at the next stage of the Bill. In these circumstances, I thank those who contributed, I thank my noble friend for his reply, and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Fisheries Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Committee stage & Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard - continued) & Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Monday 9th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

Is my understanding correct? Did my noble friend say that Clause 23(2) could be used to allocate the unused quota to under-10-metre boats, rather than just being for international obligations?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I had better look at the Bill again, and check exactly what I said so that I do not, in any way, say anything to the contrary. Certainly, the mechanism for new quotas and how we best benefit coastal communities is an area we are looking at with considerable interest. Clause 23(2) allows:

“A determination under subsection (1) may be made only for the purpose of complying with an international obligation.”


The determination can relate only to the high-level function of setting the UK’s overall pot in line with any international negotiated outcome, or the UK’s overarching obligations under international law. This might be even more of a clincher. On my noble friend’s point, I will look at Hansard, because I did not intend to make that inference and I do not think I did. For the record, Clause 23 is for the determination of only the UK pot of quota. It does not provide for allocating to industry at fisheries administration level.

To conclude, I absolutely take the point of the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington: the best available scientific evidence is absolutely clear. We all want the same thing. With that explanation, I hope the noble Baroness will feel able to withdraw her amendment.

Fisheries Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Committee stage & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 4th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

This piece of work is an honest endeavour. Yes, the issues are devolved unless they are internationally related. All objectives must be interpreted proportionately—that is a requirement of the Bill. Interestingly, I have come across a number of noble Lords who would have been wholly in favour of devolution but, now that this actually is devolved, think that there may be problems. We are working very collaboratively with the devolved Administrations. Of course, there are a lot of totemic issues for many of those communities—indeed, in England this is also a totemic matter.

I think the noble Baroness has one or two amendments on this matter in later groups. We have to be frank: these are devolved matters and that is why the coming together of the four fisheries administrations for this Bill is really important. We should see that achievement as a positive, rather than a negative.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

My Lords, I am very grateful to have had the opportunity to debate what I thought were non-controversial matters. Part of the answer is that this Bill provides the legal basis on which the fishing authorities of each of the four nations will proceed, so we are giving legal clarity as we go along. I think that is very helpful.

I just wanted to put down a marker regarding my remaining concern. There is a gap in our knowledge of fish stocks, which is presumably why Clause 1(10) exists. Even ICES cannot explain where the species have gone that have moved out of our waters and European waters generally because the waters are warming. We are not fishing in the areas, so we do not know. That may pose a bigger problem as climate change proceeds. It is entirely appropriate to have climate change and all the objectives in the Bill.

I am very grateful for the debate, and I will not oppose the clause.

Fisheries Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Committee stage & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard - continued) & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Wednesday 4th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I do not propose to debate this at any length. When I tabled my opposition to Clause 6, I had not appreciated that my Amendment 49A, which we debated earlier, would have had the chance to have been debated today.

I am especially grateful that my noble friend the Minister has said that we can have a further discussion on the question of fisheries management plans. That would give me the opportunity to explore many of the issues. Therefore, I do not wish to pursue this, other than to say that I stand by the comments I made earlier that, in terms of stock levels and controlling the biomass, it is not sufficient to look at it purely in terms of sustainability. We need to look at the biomass in terms of maximum sustainable yield. We will have an opportunity to discuss that next time.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, I am glad to have the opportunity to set out the intentions of the Government in this new provision in the Bill to produce fisheries management plans. We have already discussed various aspects and provisions of the plans, and I take this opportunity to highlight the fact that the requirement to produce these plans was not included in the previous fisheries Bill. Inclusion of this requirement demonstrates the Government’s commitment towards securing sustainable stocks and meeting the manifesto commitment on the matter. Fisheries management plans will help the United Kingdom’s aims to recover and maintain fish stocks to healthy levels, ensure we fish sustainably and offer the flexibility in our management approaches to deal with our complex fisheries.

Clause 6 requires the UK fisheries administrations to produce fisheries management plans as described in the joint fisheries statement and sets out the detail of what these plans must contain. The plans will directly contribute to the fisheries objectives in Clause 1. They will set out the detailed fisheries conservation measures necessary to manage specific fisheries and fish stocks. Each plan will set out the geographic area that it covers, the stock or stocks covered, and how its effectiveness will be monitored and reported.

Where we do not have enough scientific evidence to assess a stock’s MSY, the administration or administrations must include the steps they will take to obtain the scientific evidence required to establish sustainable harvest limits or explain why they do not intend to do so. This might, for instance, be if scientific advice indicates that a suitable proxy measure for assessing a stock’s sustainability can be used instead. For example, such an approach is used for North Sea lemon sole, which is a data-limited stock. A precautionary buffer is applied based on advice from the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea.

As I have said, I am very happy to have what I would call as technical a meeting as your Lordships wish it to be on the fisheries management plans. These plans will be the backbone of the technical aspects of fisheries management policy in the future. However, for this evening, I hope that my noble friend feels happy not to press her opposition to the clause.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

As I said, I am happy not to pursue this matter.

Fishery Protection Squadron

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Wednesday 12th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I am answering for the Government but from Defra rather than from the Ministry of Defence. I shall run through the ships because I think it will be helpful. HMS “Forth”, HMS “Medway”, HMS “Trent”, HMS “Severn”, HMS “Tamar” and HMS “Spey” are either in operation or coming forward. With regard to HMS “Clyde”, the lease ends on 31 March 2020. So, as I have outlined, this will be additional to HMS “Tyne” and HMS “Mersey”. They are specifically directed to help us with fisheries, and those ships will be engaged in a number of duties.

On the point about co-ordination, as I have mentioned before, one of the advances is the Joint Maritime Operations Coordination Centre, which exists precisely to ensure that we optimise and co-ordinate the development of UK maritime assets across government agencies, including the seagoing craft owned by Border Force, the Royal Navy, the Maritime and Coastguard Agency, the Association of Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authorities, the MMO and others. I will look at all the points the noble Lord has made, but there is a lot more co-ordination. In addition, the MMO now has 75 marine enforcement officers working with the Royal Navy.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the key to fisheries protection is to catch foreign vessels in the act of fishing? To what extent will the Government use remote electronic monitoring, and are they considering making this a qualification for issuing a licence to foreign fishermen?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, access for foreign vessels will be subject to negotiation but clearly, as the Fisheries Bill states, they will require a licence. One important additional point is modern technology. A monitoring system has been in force for vessels over 12 metres since 2013, and we will be introducing VMS for vessels under 12 metres as well so that we get a more accurate picture of fisheries’ location and activity. The noble Lord and I went up to Newcastle to see the MMO. It can detect all vessels in operation in our waters, so that we are in a better position to ensure that our waters are properly fished.

Flood Response

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 10th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I echo my noble friend’s comments about sympathy, condolence and thanks to the emergency services. Does he agree that many livestock will have been lost? I wonder what the position is and whether any support, as has been given to farmers in the past in that regard, will be thought of.

Properties built after 1 January 2009 are not covered, yet we are continuing to build in inappropriate places, so I hope that the review of Flood Re will have regard to that, along with the fact that businesses and farms are not covered and nor are flats in whole blocks.

My noble friend referred to the Bellwin scheme. Of course, what is exercising a lot of local councils is that many businesses have been given an exemption to business rates because times are hard. How will that shortfall be made up to local councils to ensure that they have the wherewithal to do what we are asking of them under the Bellwin scheme?

My noble friend will be aware of the Slowing the Flow at Pickering scheme because I never miss an opportunity to mention it. That was entirely a public partnership. I know the Government are very much minded to have private involvement in these partnerships. Could he update the House on progress in that regard?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, we will be assessing vis-à-vis farmers and the impact on them. The investment of £2.6 billion that I outlined is also designed to protect an additional 700,000 acres of agricultural land, but we will certainly be assessing what the situation is for farmers following Storm Ciara. On Flood Re, as I said, we are undertaking a review. I cannot pre-empt that but I have taken all the points that have been made.

On Bellwin, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for MHCLG has announced that. I will pass back the points made about Bellwin but I think it indicates that we recognise that the parts of the country that have had these terrible floods and that impact need assistance, and our intention is to help them.

Bovine Tuberculosis

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Wednesday 29th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the Downs peer- reviewed scientific paper of 2019 showed a 66% reduction in TB herd incidence rates in the Gloucestershire cull area and a 37% reduction in the Somerset cull area during the first four years of culling, relative to similar comparison areas in which culling was not carried out. As I said, Professor Godfray made it clear that there were no easy answers. We are undertaking research. Unfortunately, oral vaccine for badgers has not proved successful, as he conceded. We have to keep a range of methods to tackle TB in wildlife and in cattle.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that there is no country in which tuberculosis in a herd has been completely eradicated without the need for a cull? Therefore, in a limited way, a cull must be part of the tools left at our disposal.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My noble friend is right: no country has achieved bovine TB-free status without having cattle controls and culling infected wildlife species. The Republic of Ireland, New Zealand, Australia and France have all used a range of methods.

Agriculture Bill: Food Production

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 27th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, without being pedantic, Clause 1 is about the Secretary of State’s powers to give financial assistance. It sets out 10 items of public good for which there is public money because there is not a market. However, as I said, Clause 1(4) refers to food production. Other elements of the Bill involve innovation, agritech and R&D, all of which will increase productivity and help farmers to produce food. The first section is about rewarding farmers for things they are already doing, and which we want them to do even more, but for which there is no market as such.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend ensure that livestock production is given priority within the definition of food production? Will he assure the House, today, that the Government are not minded to introduce a ban on the trade in live animals? It is a small trade, but it is highly regulated and extremely important to maintaining the price, particularly of spring lambs and suckler cows.

Office for Environmental Protection

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 20th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

The noble Lord is right: independence is key. The environment Bill will state that the OEP will be operational independent of Defra. Ministers will not be able to set its programme of activity or influence its decision-making. It will be accountable to Parliament through a sponsoring Minister. We intend the chair to be subject to a pre-appointment scrutiny hearing. Ministerial appointments will be regulated by the Commissioner for Public Appointments. It is important that the OEP is independent. It will be.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, will the situation be one of legal limbo until 31 December this year? Currently, the European Court of Justice has the right to take legal action against any company that infringes environmental law. What will the legal position be until 1 January 2021?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, until the end of the implementation period, we will clearly be subject to the oversight of the EU institutions. The point is that there will be no governance gap and the OEP will be ready to act from 1 January 2021.

Farming

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Wednesday 8th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have for the future of (1) upland farms, and (2) tenant farmers.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register. Upland and tenant farmers are key to a vibrant agricultural sector and rural communities. In the tenant farming sector, we have consulted on proposals to support productivity improvements and facilitate structural change. We will publish a response to the consultation soon. Food production and environmental enhancement are central to our plans and go hand in hand. We are working with farmers in all sectors and locations to co-design environmental land management schemes.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that tenant farmers and upland farms are the backbone of the farming community? Will he ensure that they have a vibrant future? In particular, will he guarantee today that the agriculture Bill will bring forward proposals for tenancy reform, and that tenant farmers who currently benefit from countryside stewardship schemes will have the opportunity to access funds under the ELMS and other new moneys coming after the agricultural funds from the European Union cease?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, 33% of all farms in England are of mixed tenure—owning and renting land—which emphasises why this is important. It is why we have consulted on tenancy reform and are working on improving the situation. These matters are under active consideration. On the benefits of the environmental land management scheme, we are working with all sectors—owning, tenant and those who farm commons—because all this is part of the important work of enhancing the environment.

Brexit: Environmental Regulation

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 4th November 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what will be the arrangements for environmental protection and upholding environmental standards between the date of the United Kingdom leaving the European Union and the establishment of any new environmental regulation regime.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and secondary legislation will bring existing EU environmental law into domestic law so that it continues to operate after exit. We will enhance standards through the world-leading Environment Bill and the office for environmental protection, the OEP. Our intention is for the OEP to be operational from 1 January 2021. Before that, we will remain subject to EU oversight during the transitional period in the withdrawal agreement until 31 December 2020.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend for that Answer. There is concern that the level of “appropriate” standards has been reduced to “adequate” standards in the revised EU withdrawal legislation. Can my noble friend put my mind—and the minds of environmentalists at large—at rest that that will not mean a reduction of standards and that the Government are committed to keeping the highest possible level of environmental standards and protection? What will the compliance mechanism be in the interim period before the OEP is legally given effect?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, as I said, the interim arrangements would not apply under the description of events that I have, which is that we bring forward a deal, that deal is agreed and there is a withdrawal Act. As my noble friend said, that legislation is very important, and I am sure that during its passage it will be made absolutely clear that we intend to champion the environment. We want the highest possible standards and understand that the situation is grave. As to “adequate” and other measures, I am not a lawyer but I can only assure your Lordships that we are very determined to enhance the environment.

Farm Subsidies

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Wednesday 30th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I have said from this Dispatch Box, with what I hope noble Lords will understand is every sincerity, that we have no intention of changing environmental and animal welfare standards. It is absolutely the case that we have taken on to our statute book every single protection there is already through our membership of the EU and that is where we are going to proceed from. I have also said that under the new arrangements, we will support farmers to enhance animal welfare. We do not propose to preside over a reduction in animal welfare.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend rule out any importation of battery hens or eggs that are produced in battery cages? Will he also consider extremely carefully the implications for pig farmers of banning farrowing crates, bearing in mind that many of them went out of business in the 1990s when a previous Conservative Government introduced the sow stall and tether ban? Further, will he make a commitment to livestock producers that we will keep under close review the future of the live trade in farm animals?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, there has always been a tradition of transporting live animals for breeding and other matters that we have done with our great stock over many years, but we are concerned about transport arrangements and about moving animals for slaughter away from our shores. These are matters that we will be attending to. We will be working with the Farm Animal Welfare Committee, as well as industry, retailers and welfare groups, to develop proposals on enhancing farm welfare standards because we think that the British farmer has a very good reputation that we wish to enhance.

US-imposed Trade Tariffs

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 7th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, as I have said, we are working with the EU. This issue concerns tariffs imposed on the EU, and we are part of the Airbus quad that I have been learning about. We are working very strongly with our EU friends and partners, in working with our American friends and partners, on something that we in this country do not think is beneficial for American trading interests or our own. Whatever our status—whether a member of the EU or not—we are clear that we do not believe that this is right or beneficial. If we have left, we will also be saying that this is not a basis on which we should be working. These tariffs are not beneficial to the EU, the UK or the third party in this, the United States.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, according to the figures from the Food and Drink Federation, Scotch whisky is the single most successful export across the world? Is he not as concerned as I am that the US seems to have chosen to pick on UK brands such as Bushmills from Northern Ireland and Scotch whisky? Why has it not been extended to products from another Airbus nation, such as French champagne or brandy? Does the Minister share my concern that this does not augur well for our future trade relations after the UK leaves the EU?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, my understanding is that tariffs will be levied on the Airbus nations and the EU. The data shows me that 38% of French trade is directly targeted, compared to 10% of ours. These tariffs will affect the EU as well. My noble friend is right—to repeat it and put it on the record—that Scotch whisky is the UK’s largest agrifood export, at £4.7 billion in 2018. It is the largest contributor to the UK’s balance of trade in goods and, thinking of Scotland, it provides 7,000 rural jobs and 11,000 in total. It is very important to Scotland.

Peatlands: Commercial Exploitation

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 9th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

As an amateur gardener, I agree with what the noble Baroness has said. It is precisely why we have embarked on a £1 million project, which ends at the end of this year, co-funded by the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board, with growing-medium manufacturers and commercial growers. It is being undertaken by ADAS and the Quadram Institute. The results so far are very promising. Some of the new mixes have proved very successful, and that must be the way forward. Clearly, we need to produce different materials if we want ericaceous compost for seeds and all the different components of agriculture, but the results so far are promising, and that is how we must proceed.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend perhaps display a greater sense of urgency, considering that it takes 200 years to create a peat bog? Since there are flood prevention schemes, such as the Pickering pilot scheme, will the Government ensure that peat bogs are created as part of such restoration schemes and will they form part of the land management system under the eventual agriculture Bill?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

Undoubtedly, peat bogs and fens help with flood management and improve water quality. Indeed, they play a considerable part in climate regulation, which is why in the wider research beyond what I have already described we are funding research into mitigation strategies—for instance, for lowland peatland. This research is being led by the Centre for Ecology & Hydrology. One of the things, of course, is not to let peat dry out.

Brexit: Food Standards

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Wednesday 4th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, perhaps I am the one who is confused. I have made it absolutely clear that all the EU import requirements will remain, irrespective of the tariff regime. The noble Lord shakes his head but that is the truth. It will be the law. All the EU import requirements will continue and that is the precise point I am making. This is why the consumer is secure. All of these elements cannot be imported unless they have the standards currently in place.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend will recall that a government amendment in the name of my noble friend Lady Fairhead was carried enhancing just these protections in the Trade Bill, which is currently still before the House of Commons. What is the fate of that Bill for rollover agreements? If it falls, will the Government be minded to ensure that this will be part of government policy?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the first part of my noble friend’s question might be above my pay grade, but I am absolutely clear—this is government policy—that all the requirements we are taking over will continue, including, as I emphasised, all the import requirements, whether for products of animal origin or high-risk, non-animal origin products. I have a long list of them. That is precisely why I believe we will continue with our very high standards.

Biodiversity Duty: Public Authorities

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 22nd July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the environment Bill—obviously, this is a second Session piece of legislation—is designed to plot a course precisely to restore and enhance nature and the environment and to do many other things but particularly to introduce a pioneering new system of green governance. It is clearly essential that we enhance nature. That is why species such as the chough and the bittern are recovering and there are a number of reintroductions, such as the short-haired bumble bee. We are working on a number of species, but we need to improve habitats across the board.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that ash tree dieback has caused great devastation to self-planting trees? Many of them are on property owned by local authorities. Will my noble friend confirm that it will be a biodiversity duty of local authorities to remove such trees, and has his department made an estimate of the cost of such removal?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, my noble friend is right to highlight the biodiversity costs of losing ash trees. It is why, with research, we have found the most tolerant strains. We will be planting a large plantation of the most tolerant strains next year so that we can ensure that ash retains its important part in our ecosystems. We have also produced a toolkit and we are working with local authorities as, clearly, not only is health and safety involved but we want to ensure that the most tolerant trees are conserved. A lot of work is being done on that. For instance, I commend Devon County Council for its policy that, for every tree that is felled, three are being planted. That is a message for everyone.

Soil Health

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 8th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, as I just said, one of the research projects is undertaking to have indicators and a framework. Good soil health provides a public benefit. It obviously provides a private benefit to farmers and food producers, but it also produces a very considerable benefit for public good. That is why it is important for it to be part of the testing and trials of the environmental land management scheme.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that some of the healthiest soil is that created by a peat bog? Will he pay tribute to those who were alive to the Slowing the Flow at Pickering flood prevention project, part of which was to create a peat bog, which can take up to 200 years to form. Are the Government planning to create more peat bogs as part of the public good, to be announced in due course?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, as part of the England Peat Strategy, and the research we are undertaking feeding into it, we are also establishing a lowland agricultural peat task force. The Adaptation Sub-Committee of the Committee on Climate Change has suggested that there is a loss of peat soils, particularly in the East Anglian fens—where there is big production of food—but I also commend Slowing the Flow at Pickering, another example of what we do in restoring the natural ecosystem and managing flooding.

Office for Environmental Protection

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Wednesday 22nd May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government when they expect the Office for Environmental Protection to be operational; what its remit will be; and in the interim, which body will ensure compliance with environmental protection legislation and regulations.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, we are planning for the office for environmental protection to be operational from 1 January 2021. The OEP will be an independent statutory organisation established by the environment Bill. It will provide environmental scrutiny and advice, respond to complaints and take enforcement action. If necessary, we are ready with interim arrangements. These will provide an initial assessment of complaints, scrutiny of the 25-year environment plan and ad hoc advice until the OEP is established.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for that reply, and I yield to no one in my admiration of his concern for the environment. The Government have committed, in the EU withdrawal Bill being brought forward by the Prime Minister, to enforcing environmental protections but, in the unfortunate position of the United Kingdom leaving the European Union with no deal, we will lose access to the European Commission and the European Court of Justice to enforce the principles of environmental protection to which we have subscribed. Does my noble friend share my sense of urgency about setting up the office for environmental protection before 2021 to ensure that we will have a mechanism in place for enforcing all the principles to which we have subscribed under the EU in the event that we leave with no deal?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, that is precisely why we have the interim arrangements and the establishment of a non-statutory secretariat for those circumstances. It would be headed by a distinguished environmental lawyer. All of this is to ensure that, before the operation of the OEP, there is a body up and running and thus ready to take action in terms of the functions that apply directly to central government and public bodies. When the OEP is set up, those functions will be passed on, so there will be no gap in terms of holding government and public bodies to account.

Animal Health, Plant Health, Seeds and Seed Potatoes (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 13th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, I hope that it will be helpful to your Lordships if I speak to both the Animal Health, Alien Species in Aquaculture and Invasive Non-native Species (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 and the Animal Health, Plant Health, Seeds and Seed Potatoes (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019, given the close connection between the two instruments.

It may also be helpful to explain why we are debating the Animal Health, Plant Health, Seeds and Seed Potatoes (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 again when it has already had your Lordships’ full consideration. We are doing so because timetabling issues in the other place led to a delay in the instrument being made; that meant that it was necessary to withdraw the instrument and make it under the emergency procedure, under which we are now debating it. Both statutory instruments were made under the emergency procedure as both were required to support the UK’s application to the European Commission for third-country listed status for animal health purposes. As the Government have made clear, we are seeking a negotiated deal with the European Union, but we are taking responsible action to prepare for other scenarios.

The European Commission called a meeting of the relevant committee—SCoPAFF—on 9 April to consider the UK’s third-country listing application and made it clear that it required all relevant animal health legislation to be in place by that date. Both SIs therefore had to be made in a very short window of time as both contain amendments to animal health legislation. By using the emergency procedure to make the SIs, the UK was able to assure the Commission that all relevant legislation had been made, enabling member states to vote unanimously on 9 April to list the UK as a third country. This would have enabled the export of animal products and most live animals from the UK to the EU to continue in the event of a no-deal scenario on 12 April. The Government have taken care to avoid using the emergency procedure under the EU withdrawal Act, but we considered use of this procedure to be appropriate in this instance.

I want to make it clear that our biosecurity controls for animals and plants are paramount and that these instruments continue to contribute to ensuring that we will have the most robust arrangements in place to protect public health and the environment. The instruments make technical operability amendments covering animal health, plant health, aquaculture, invasive non-native species, seed marketing and seed potatoes, and will contribute towards ensuring that the legislation protecting our biosecurity is fully operable.

As the first statutory instrument has been debated in this House previously, I hope that it will be helpful if I summarise it. The amendments made by the instrument concern recent updates on animal health control measures relating to African swine fever in certain member states. Retaining this EU decision requires the appropriate Minister in the UK to display public information notices regarding the importance of biosecurity measures to prevent this pig disease being brought into the UK; it also prohibits the movement of live feral pigs.

On TSEs, a reference to a function of the European Commission in the Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies (England) Regulations 2018 has been amended to refer to the Secretary of State instead of the EU Commission.

Part 3 of the statutory instrument covers plant health. It amends the Plant Health (Amendment) (England) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 and the Plant Health (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 to recognise arrangements with the Crown dependencies and deal with new EU plant health decisions, including controls on the red-necked longhorn beetle. I remember with some affection the debate we had on this particularly difficult beetle. As I said before, this is a damaging pest and a threat to a range of fruit and ornamental species in the UK, including cherry, peach and plum.

Regulations 4 and 5 recognise the arrangements with the Crown dependencies, following planned meetings concluded early in 2019, that will continue to facilitate the import and movement of regulated plants and plant products into the UK. The changes made by this instrument give effect to those arrangements. Regulation 5 also provides for the import of ash wood from the United States of America and Canada to continue under the same stringent derogation provisions after exit, ensuring continuity of supply for UK businesses without—I emphasise this—any compromise to bio- security.

The Plant Health (Amendment) (England) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 are also amended to enable UK plant passports to contain certain details in relation to the marketing of fruit plant propagating material and fruit plants. This is intended to avoid the need for dual labelling.

Part 4 of this statutory instrument covers seed marketing and seed potatoes, and applies to England as this is a devolved matter. Indeed, in the previous debate we considered the importance of consistency but also of respecting the devolved arrangements, which have worked particularly well. These regulations are amended to ensure that growers in England have continued access from the EU to new varieties of vegetables and a continued supply of seed potatoes for an interim period after EU exit. I remember the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, talking about the kalette during that element of our considerations. This instrument is required to attend to a number of elements of retained direct EU legislation to ensure operability and appropriate functioning.

I turn to the Animal Health, Alien Species in Aqua- culture and Invasive Non-native Species (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. This instrument amends four previous EU exit statutory instruments to ensure that the previous instruments work fully as intended. At this moment, I again extend my regrets and apologies, and I take responsibility if errors are discovered, but—as I have said before—given the pressures, I understand how these errors have been made. I put on record that I regret having to bother your Lordships with a piece of business about errors. I am open, transparent and straight about that, but I regret it.

The invasive non-native species instrument is amended to correct a small number of drafting and typographical errors that have been identified. An amendment has also been made to Regulation 7(3)(e) of the invasive species instrument to ensure consistency with the Invasive Alien Species (Enforcement and Permitting) Order 2019. The order provides for recovery of enforcement-related costs from importers by enforcement authorities, and this amendment provides certainty that importers are responsible for these costs.

The two aquatic animal health and alien species in aquaculture instruments have been amended to allow cross-references in the legislation to be more readily understood. I agree with that. Both instruments contain reference to an article in EU directive 2006/88 that has since been implemented by a more recent Commission decision, making these references redundant. These references have therefore been omitted from both SIs.

The instrument relating to the import of and trade in animals and animal products is amended as it revoked a 2006 Commission decision in error, instead of revoking a single article from that decision. This decision imposes the import requirements of fruit bats, cats and dogs from peninsular Malaysia and cats from Australia—intended to prevent the introduction of the Nipah and Hendra viruses—and is now correctly reinstated as EU retained law. The UK does not import any fruit bats, but a number of cats and dogs are imported from these countries and so it was clearly imperative that this situation has been rectified. Again, we are clear that there is no intention to weaken biosecurity standards and, again, I regret that this occurred. I am extremely pleased that, on further scrutiny, this was discovered and we propose through this instrument to sort it out.

Additionally, within the same instrument, lists of animal product commodities that require checks at UK border inspection posts are being amended to make the additional removal of products from the list an administrative function. The import conditions for animals and products remain in the legislation and so, again, there will not be a lowering of any standards.

I emphasise that this corrective instrument makes purely technical changes to these four existing EU exit instruments to ensure that they will operate correctly when we leave. This instrument does not introduce new policy but simply amends the original instruments so that they operate as originally intended.

The decision to use the urgent procedure was not taken lightly. It was deemed necessary in order to protect the biosecurity of the United Kingdom and to prevent financial losses and maintain trade by ensuring that the UK was able to achieve EU third-country listed status in the event of leaving the EU without a deal on 12 April. These instruments will ensure that our strict biosecurity controls with regards to animal health, plant health, aquaculture, invasive non-native species, seed marketing and seed potatoes are maintained. I beg to move.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for introducing these two statutory instruments but regret the circumstances that he has set out. I welcome the opportunity to consider them and I have a couple of questions.

Mindful of the fact that we are on the eve of the Chelsea Flower Show, I wish to press my noble friend on the comments he made in relation to inspections and the role of the import controls. When these were considered in the other place on 9 May, our honourable friend David Rutley said:

“Notifications will be required for live animals, Germplasm and animal by-products not for human consumption, and high-risk food and feed are subject to vet checks”.—[Official Report, Commons, 9/5/19; col. 13.]


This raises a question not only about plants but about who will be responsible for the inspection for beetles. Will it be the responsibility of the UK border inspection or the importer? Will the importer pick up the cost of these inspections?

Page 44 of Statutory Instrument 2019 No. 809, refers to the policy on GMO and food and feed regulations. My noble friend has said that these two statutory instruments have been brought forward today in case there is no deal. It would be welcome if he could reassure me that our policy on GMO will not change in the event of no deal.

On a separate matter, I am keen that we use the same language as is used in this and other statutory instruments and regulations from my noble friend’s department, whether it relates to the import of plants, animals, potato seeds or other items within the remit of these two statutory instruments. We successfully amended the Trade Act, but I am concerned that the wording used in that amendment related only to plant and animal health. I would argue that it should extend to food safety. I realise it does not fall entirely within the remit of these statutory instruments, but I would welcome the opportunity to discuss this at greater length with my noble friend if we have the opportunity to do so. I am very keen that the language used by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs is the same as that used by the Department for International Trade to make sure that, when we look at these issues across departments, we entirely understand what is being considered.

My final question relates to my noble friend’s comments on Statutory Instrument 2019 No. 813. Page 3 refers to the import of fruit bats, cats and dogs. As he explained, we have no imports of fruit bats, for what purpose are they in the regulation before us today?

Common Agricultural Policy and Market Measures (Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Wednesday 8th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register.

The purpose of this statutory instrument is to ensure that the regulatory baseline currently applicable in the UK under European Union legislation will be maintained on the UK statute book and can continue to operate effectively after exit. This instrument does not make any policy changes. It consists of a series of technical amendments that are essential to ensure that two new amending EU common agricultural policy regulations are retained in UK law at the point of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU.

This instrument is among a small number of affirmative statutory instruments that have been made under the urgent procedure. The urgent procedure was used because during March 2019 the European Commission introduced two new amending EU CAP regulations and it was essential that the UK should retain these amendments in an operable form in advance of a possible no deal exit on 12 April 2019.

The two new amending EU common agricultural policy (CAP) regulations are EU regulation 2019/288, which applied to all member states from 1 March 2019 and relates to direct payments to farmers under the CAP; and EU Commission delegated regulation 2019/428, which took effect from 26 March 2019 and relates to marketing standards in the fruit and vegetables sectors under the common organisation of agricultural markets (CMO). The instrument also takes the opportunity to make a few minor typographical corrections and, in the case of Regulation 3(3), removes a duplication in a small number of previous Defra EU exit SIs. Again, these amendments represent no change to policy. Agriculture is a devolved policy area and Defra has worked closely with devolved Administrations, who have all given their consent to this instrument.

As I explained on 20 March 2019, when we debated a number of instruments concerning the common agricultural policy, the UK Government have pledged to continue to meet their funding commitments in the agriculture sector. This SI, by taking account of the EU’s regulatory updates, fine-tunes Defra’s direct payments EU exit instrument, ensuring that the flexibilities to manage the budget between Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 are reflected and up to date.

The EU direct payments provisions amended by this instrument will enable UK relevant authorities to continue to have the flexibility to decide whether to transfer funds from the direct payments budget to the rural development budget via an inter-pillar transfer. This inter-pillar transfer provision was available across the United Kingdom in previous years of the CAP and has been used by England, Scotland and Wales in those years, but was limited up to and including the 2019 direct payments scheme year. Defra had already intended to address that regulatory gap for the 2020 scheme year via domestic legislation. However, the EU has now decided to make an inter-pillar transfer provision available to member states for the 2020 scheme year. That decision came into effect via new EU regulation 2019/288 on 1 March 2019, and Defra has taken the earliest available opportunity to account for these changes through this instrument. This instrument will retain the valuable flexibility currently afforded to UK relevant authorities. This will enable direct payment and rural development funding levels for 2020 to be maintained in line with previous years.

For the common market organisation, this instrument amends provisions of an existing exit SI as regards marketing standards for mixes of fruit and/or vegetables and citrus fruit. The EU has recently undertaken some refinements of its regulations on marketing standards for fruit and vegetables to align the EU marketing standards with the latest United Nations Economic Commission for Europe marketing standards. It has also clarified that marking and labelling requirements for small packages of mixed fruit and/or vegetables apply equally to mixes of fruit, mixes of vegetables and mixes of fruit and vegetables. That update came into effect on 26 March 2019, and the version of the EU marketing standards regulation that will be retained in UK law on exit will include this update. We want to ensure that this regulation is operable in the UK at the point of leaving, taking this amendment into account. The updates made by this instrument are therefore only technical in nature, such as ensuring that labelling changes are applied consistently and updating references to other provisions. This will provide clarity to stake- holders.

Finally, we have used the opportunity provided by this instrument to make minor technical amendments to four EU exit statutory instruments relating to the CAP that were made by Defra between February and March 2019. By way of example, Regulation 3(3) of the instrument omits a duplicated provision. Regulation 6(2) amends a phrase in a non-operative section of a domestic SI describing a provision of retained EU legislation to ensure the terminology is consistent with the exit statutory instrument that amends the provision described as “appropriate authority” rather than “relevant authority”. Neither amendment has a practical implication; they merely tidy up the statute book. The other corrections are essentially of a typographical nature, such as use of the word “of” instead of “or”; taking account of different phrasing in the EU regulation; and correcting an instance where the text quoted in the statutory instrument does not match the text in the retained EU regulation.

I take full responsibility for the errors, and obviously I regret any error. As I have said before, my task is to ensure that everything is right. I assure your Lordships that we felt it better to attend to these, so that the statute book was perfection. I am being absolutely open when I say that we need to attend to them. I hope your Lordships will understand that I am always disappointed to have to offer my regrets about inaccuracies, but is it not far better to be straightforward? I beg to move.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I take this opportunity to thank my noble friend for bringing forward these regulations today. I also take the opportunity to thank his department, which had to deal with more statutory instruments in a record time to enable us to be prepared for what could still be the eventuality of Britain leaving the European Union with no deal. I know that this has been at some considerable human cost to his department.

My question relates to information from the new Minister for Agriculture in the other place, right honourable friend Robert Goodwill. As my noble friend alluded to in his introduction, the Minister set out the ability for inter-pillar transfers between Pillar 1 and Pillar 2. When this was considered in the other place, our right honourable friend stated that,

“inter-pillar transfers of up to 15% can be made from year to year”.

He went on to elaborate:

“England has availed itself of 12%, Scotland 9.5%, and Wales 15%—the full amount”.—[Official Report, Commons, Second Delegated Legislation Committee, 7/5/19; col. 8.]


As of that date, Northern Ireland had yet to avail itself of the transfer because of its particular circumstances.

What my noble friend has brought forward today will ensure that we will be prepared to leave. I congratulate him on his honesty in identifying the errors that were made, inevitably, in bringing forward so many statutory instruments in such a short time. What will be the position relating to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in the run-up to and post 2020? I also welcome the commitment that funding will still be in place, as I understand it, until that time. What is the status of the framework agreement that will, presumably, come into place to deal not just with agriculture but with fisheries and a number of other areas relating to my noble friend’s work in the department? I understand that it will be the UK Government who will decide what the position is for agricultural policy at that time. At the moment, Scotland and Wales have been able to have a differential in the transfer between Pillar 1 and Pillar 2. Will they lose that flexibility going forward, either before or after 2020?

I intend, however, to give a fair wind to the statutory instrument before the House today.

Farming Communities: Rural Crime

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Thursday 2nd May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I certainly will. As rural affairs Minister, I take the whole issue of the way in which rural communities are looked after very seriously. This is particularly important for isolated communities. The police resources allocation formula is a calculation that uses various data sources to share money between authorities. The formula predicts the relative workload or need for each category of police activity. As Rural Affairs Minister, I am keenly aware of the fact that there is a lot of work that can be done with rural communities, through working with the police and police and crime commissioners. I will certainly take this up with colleagues in the Home Office, because rural communities must be looked after.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, would my noble friend take this opportunity to congratulate the work of what I think was the first rural crime task force, set up by North Yorkshire Police? Will he use his good offices to ensure that rural crime is given a higher priority by the Home Office?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, as I said to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, it is very much the case that we need to work with the Home Office. We work with it very closely and also work with the National Police Chiefs’ Council, on wildlife crime, for instance, and the National Rural Crime Network. Clearly, these rural crimes are devastating for rural communities.

Brexit: Farming Tariffs

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Tuesday 19th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register. In developing their tariff policy, the Government considered the interests of consumers and domestic producers. In agriculture, there will be tariff rate quotas for beef, poultry, sugar and rice, as well as tariffs for lamb, pigmeat, butter and cheddar-type cheeses. Further tariffs will be retained on products such as bananas, where preferential access to the UK market is important for developing countries. This tariff regime would apply for up to 12 months.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for that Answer. While I welcome these protections, I ask my noble friend why beef, lamb and dairy have been included but not eggs, cereals and horticulture, and why whole-animal products have been included but not specified meat cuts, which is the norm. Could he confirm that discussions were held with the Irish Government before the tariffs were announced and that approvals have been obtained from the World Trade Organization?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the Government have sought to bring forward a balanced approach, which in part follows the five principles set out in the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018. The first two are the interests of consumers in the UK and those of producers in the UK. We were conscious in our considerations that this would be a temporary tariff regime in the event of no deal—which I emphasise we do not wish—and that there were areas where we wanted to get the balance right in protecting sensitive sectors, such as the sheep sector, while there were other areas where though that prices to the consumer were also important.

We will obviously take very seriously our obligations under international law. We have taken into account the unique social, political and economic circumstances of Northern Ireland. I was not party to any discussions because that would be for other departments, but it is clear that in the event of no deal there would have to be immediate contingency arrangements and urgent discussions with the Irish Government and the Commission.

Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Wednesday 13th March 2019 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, these regulations group elements of six policy regimes: natural mineral waters, spirit drinks, food labelling, wines, genetically modified organisms and animal imports. The purpose of this statutory instrument is to make purely technical or operability corrections to ensure that these regimes continue to function as intended. These corrections deal with removing or amending references to EU directives, removing or amending EU references, converting EU procedures to UK procedures and transferring EU functions to the UK.

This instrument allows the recognition of existing natural mineral waters from the EU, Iceland and Norway to continue on a transitional provision for at least six months, thereby maintaining the status quo immediately before exit day. This instrument also provides power to the Secretary of State to withdraw recognition of existing EU natural mineral waters after a period of notice if the EU was not to reciprocate and recognise UK natural mineral waters. Of course, we hope that the EU will recognise our mineral waters in good faith, as indeed we are doing.

With the exception of the Secretary of State’s powers over recognition of natural mineral waters, this instrument makes no further substantive changes. Without this provision, existing natural mineral waters which obtained recognition in or by a member state in the EEA would not have the right to be legally sold in England, irrespective of the Secretary of State’s powers to regulate this field. That would lead to restricted consumer choice in the UK, where one in three bottles of natural mineral water are of EU origin, and changes to product prices due to market forces. We have therefore taken a pragmatic view on that matter, and it is necessary that we do so.

The statutory instrument will also ensure that we have a fully functioning scheme for spirit drinks’ geographical indications, allowing us to register and amend applications. This is particularly important for Scotch whisky, which in 2018 had a record £4.7 billion-worth of exports. Although these exports would not directly be put in jeopardy without this SI, the industry would lose the ability to amend the Scotch whisky technical file to better reflect industry practice. The technical file is the document which provides the technical specifications for products using the Scotch whisky GI name: for example, production process, geographical area, specific labelling rules and so forth. This SI amends the applicable regulation to transfer functions from the European Commission to the Secretary of State.

On food labelling, this SI transfers a series of legislative functions which are currently conferred upon the European Commission so that they will instead be exercisable here in the UK. Transferring the functions means that we can make important changes concerning how certain pieces of information can be presented to the consumer. These powers currently sit with the EU Commission and ensure that we would not require new primary legislation to, for example, update the list of allergens that must be labelled on prepacked food or change the way that nutritional values are presented.

The SI also transfers the power to make rules for the production processes used to make aromatised wines, as well as rules on methods of analysis and administrative and physical checks, and transfers powers on wine relating to GI applications from the EU to the Secretary of State. It allows us to update laws in relation to the production and analysis arrangements for aromatised wine by means of regulations. It will also enable us to consider applications for new wine GIs and deal with applications to amend and cancel wine GIs on the UK wines GI register. Without doing so, key aspects of our wine quality policy would become inoperative, which would put us in breach of the WTO provisions. It also rolls over the framework for how producers protect geographical indications for aromatised wines, as well as the mechanisms to control the production and use of those geographical indications.

For genetically modified organisms, the SI makes purely technical changes to keep legislation operable on exit. I emphasise that there are no policy changes. It makes operability changes to transfer existing powers from the EU to the Secretary of State, thereby allowing the Secretary of State to develop technical statutory guidance on sampling and testing for the presence of GMOs, to amend the threshold above which products must comply with traceability and labelling requirements, and to apply unique identifying codes to GMOs. This will ensure that we can continue to enforce the rigorous rules governing genetically modified organisms.

Finally, this SI amends animal health provisions. It makes operable provisions relating to the import of cattle semen, pig semen and horse semen, ova and embryos. These amendments are purely technical, and preserve the current regime for imports and for protecting the UK’s biosecurity. The SI also makes minor operability amendments to two other animal health provisions, one laying down a health certificate used to ensure the health status of certain imports of live animals and products of animal origin, and the other making provision for the appropriate UK authority to publish approved lists of border inspection posts relating to the movement of animals and animal products. In both cases, the amendments are minor and technical and do not introduce any new policy.

Defra has consulted the devolved Administrations on the amendments in this instrument and they have consented to its coming into force. The instrument concerns changes for the United Kingdom except as regards natural mineral waters—those apply only to England—and decisions on GMOs, which are a devolved matter for Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland. As the natural mineral waters amendments apply only to England, each devolved Administration would have to provide their own equivalent amendments to their respective natural mineral waters regulations. We expect the devolved Administrations to mirror the same policy position, but they have yet to lay their respective provisions in legislation.

Amendments made to Regulation (EC) No. 1830/2003 on the traceability and labelling of genetically modified organisms will apply to the UK. They respect that decisions on GMOs are a devolved matter.

The natural mineral water policy decisions were subject to a public consultation, which ran from 16 October to 13 November last year. Defra engaged all major stakeholders in the process throughout 2018, from individual companies to industry bodies. We have also written to the main stakeholders to explain the implications of the instrument.

These measures will ensure that the policy regimes for natural mineral waters, spirit drinks, food labelling, wine, aromatised wine, GMOs and animal imports remain able to operate. With the exception of natural mineral waters, where we have consulted extensively, this instrument makes technical or operability corrections ensuring that these regimes continue to function as intended. I beg to move.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the regulations, and given my heritage—born in Edinburgh—find particularly pleasing those concerning Scotch whisky exports, which obviously boost trade for the whole country.

From my Question earlier this week, the Minister will be aware of my interest in traceability and labelling. Unfortunately, we did not have time to explore it then. I am grateful to him for setting out the thrust of the statutory instrument. He went to some length to explain that this instrument is technical in nature and makes no public policy changes, but he will be aware of the fact that the 19th report of Sub-Committee B of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee states very clearly that the regulations give rise to issues of public policy likely to be of interest to the House. Therefore I am grateful that we are having the opportunity to debate them today.

North Yorkshire is still smarting from the fact that Shepherds Purse Cheeses used to produce a very popular cheese called Yorkshire Feta, which, not being produced in Greece, fell foul of the GI, and so for a time was called Yorkshire Fettle. To my embarrassment, I am unsure how it is marketed now.

Can the Minister provide an assurance that we will continue to follow the Cocoa and Chocolate Products (England) Regulations 2003? I do not necessarily blame the Government for the volatility of the pound, but we have seen changes to the pound since the result of the referendum was known, and, over the last two weeks, increasingly volatility. This has huge implications for cocoa and chocolate products. The Minister will be aware, for example—without naming a producer, because other products are available—that we tend to introduce milk chocolate here with a lower cocoa content and a higher oil vegetable fat content. I am seeking an assurance that we will continue to be aligned with the European Union rules regarding cocoa and chocolate products, and in particular, their content, insofar as these regulations relate to that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I am most grateful for all the comments that have been made. I agree that they cover issues beyond the statutory instrument, which, as I said, enables regimes to be operable. The subject matters are very important. I can say immediately to my noble friend Lady McIntosh and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, that, yes, we will continue to follow the Cocoa and Chocolate Products (England) Regulations 2003. Of course, the whole proposal for beyond this afternoon’s debate is that we are not seeking, with these SIs coming through the withdrawal Act, to have any policy changes at all. We will continue with that.

On the question of geographical indications, on which a number of points were made, I entirely agree with my noble friend Lady Byford that, perhaps of the 86, Stilton was definitely most worthy of comment. However, I think that all of us, and beyond, recognise that we have some extraordinarily wonderful produce from all parts of the United Kingdom. We should celebrate them. I assure your Lordships that the GI schemes that will come into force in the UK on the day that we leave the EU will guarantee that UK GIs will remain fully protected in the UK. There is absolutely no question that suddenly these extraordinarily important products would have to share their centuries-old heritage with others.

The forthcoming GI legislation will also ensure that the UK continues to comply with these obligations as a member of the World Trade Organization, including under the TRIPS agreement on intellectual property. That is vital in empowering the UK to strike new trade deals with other countries, a number of which are due to come into force on exit day. Yes, we wish to cherish the GIs that we have, but we also see every merit—I am sure that this is the case around the world—in ensuring that there is scope for new produce to be a celebration of wherever it comes, as in this country.

A number of points were raised on GMOs. Although this is about operability, a number of your Lordships raised the issue more generally. An important point was made about the ability to make changes to allow the UK to keep pace with technological advances and labelling requirements in the international arena. It is important that we are in a position, through this SI and beyond, to ensure that we can attend to any necessary changes. The devolved Administrations may make their own amendments or, as we have often seen with these SIs—I think that this will continue—the Secretary of State may do so on DAs’ behalf with their agreement.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, asked about expertise in this area, as did the noble Lord, Lord Trees, my noble friend Lady Byford and the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell. The current situation is that the European Food Safety Authority issues an opinion on an application. For the UK, the EFSA opinion is considered by the Advisory Committee on Releases to the Environment. ACRE is a statutory body of experts providing independent scientific advice to UK Ministers on potential risk to the environment caused by any GMO.

To emphasise the importance of the scientists involved, I can report that ACRE comprises nine independent scientists with expertise in a range of disciplines, including ecology, microbiology, entomology, soil biology and biochemistry, plant pathology, genetics and plant biochemistry, medical microbiology and human infection, molecular biology, genomics and systems biology and synthetic biology. The Food Standards Agency considers the application in terms of safety as food and feed. ACRE’s advice informs the UK’s vote from the environmental perspective. That is how it has been, with that statutory body of experts.

Going forward, EFSA’s opinions are publicly available, so we will continue to have access to them, and ACRE will continue to advise the UK Government on the environmental aspects of applications made for, for example, any GM crop. The final decision will now be made, as I say, in the United Kingdom, but I emphasise that the Government place the greatest importance on environmental protection, all of it based on independent scientific expertise of the range that I outlined—I am sorry that it took a little time, but I wanted your Lordships to know that the range of expertise covers almost every area that could be interconnected with these matters.

The noble Lord, Lord Trees, raised the question of inspections. On imports from the EU, we have decided that the risk will not change on day one. There may not be reciprocity but we will not change our arrangements, because we do not believe that there are any new risks to UK biosecurity. The only additional inspections that we will have for imports will apply to live animals, animal products and high-risk food and feed not of animal origin that originates from a third country and travels through the EU before arriving in the UK. We are considering options to minimise regulatory duplication for transits entering the UK via the EU, and I confirm that there will be no change to the level of expertise required at UK BIPs. We are conscious of the flow of trade, but we need to base all our judgments on biosecurity risk as well. The Chief Veterinary Office, who constantly advises me and the Government on such matters, is absolutely clear that there is no risk.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, and the noble Lord, Lord Trees, raised a number of other points. I absolutely understand the sensitivities of the Northern Ireland issue. I emphasise that we remain focused on securing a deal that will guarantee no hard border. We have always been clear that the unique social, political and economic circumstances of Northern Ireland must be reflected in any arrangements that could apply in a no-deal scenario. In the event of no deal, we will do everything possible to avoid a hard border between the north and the Republic and to uphold the Good Friday agreement. Therefore, today we confirm a unilateral approach to checks, processes and tariffs. That approach will of course be temporary, but if there is no deal we will not introduce any new checks or controls on goods crossing from Ireland to Northern Ireland, including any new customs declarations for goods.

I obviously hope very much that the same will be reflected by the EU and the Republic but, as I said during Questions earlier this week, a deal involves two parties. In making that pragmatic decision, we have behaved correctly. We have been told that there will not be reciprocity on natural mineral water, but we took the view that we would continue to accept it from the EU. Yes, that recognises consumer choice but it is important to recognise our pragmatic approach. There is absolutely no intention to see some trade war or dispute emerge. We are clear that the Secretary of State has the ability to withdraw recognition but, in practical terms, with this SI and beyond we have seen a collaborative approach between all home countries. That is the point rightly raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch. After the guaranteed first six months of rolled-over recognition, all the home countries would need to agree—I hope that it will not be the case, but this is the provision—that there might be a time to give notice, as stated in the instrument, and how long that notice would be. Again, I say that the UK has been pragmatic and certainly does not seek anything other than a meaningful and strong relationship in this case, the drinking of natural mineral water. I absolutely endorse what the noble Baroness said: I find it curious how much water we import. Think of the imported water miles, when we have Buxton, Highland Spring and Welsh water—

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

And Harrogate Spring Water.

Rural Development (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Wednesday 13th March 2019 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, it is appropriate that I declare my farming interests, as set out in the register. The matters in the four instruments are closely interrelated; I hope it will be helpful to your Lordships if I speak to all four together. These instruments amend retained EU law and domestic legislation to ensure that rural development payments and maritime and fisheries payments can still be made after exit day. These amendments will maintain the effectiveness and continuity of EU and domestic legislation that would otherwise be deficient following our exit.

These changes are necessary to enable rural development programmes, partially funded by the European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development, and the maritime and fisheries operational programme, partially funded by the European Maritime and Fisheries Fund, to continue operating effectively in the United Kingdom following exit, until their closure at the end of the 2014-2020 programming period. There will be an opportunity to consider the scheme-specific regulations for the European Maritime and Fisheries Fund at a later date, as these are made operable in the Common Fisheries Policy (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

There are currently four rural development programmes operating in the UK, one in each Administration, providing funding for rural businesses, farmers, land managers and applicants living in a rural community with the intention of growing the rural economy, increasing productivity and improving the environment. The maritime and fisheries programme is UK-wide and promotes growth in the sector by providing funding for sustainable fisheries, marketing and processing and sustainable aquaculture, among other matters.

There are two European funds relevant to these instruments: the European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development and the European Maritime and Fisheries Fund. The former supports the delivery of rural development in the UK and is worth some £430 million per year over the programming period. The latter promotes a competitive, environmentally sustainable, economically viable and socially responsible fisheries and aquaculture sector, which is worth some £32 million per year. The UK Government have guaranteed that any projects funded from the 2014-2020 allocations from these funds will be funded for their full lifetime.

The changes made by these instruments are necessary to ensure that the Government guarantee can be honoured and payments can continue to be made to agreement holders using domestic funding in place of funding from the EU. They provide certainty to individuals and businesses currently receiving rural development and maritime and fisheries funding or considering applying for funding during the current 2014-2020 programming period.

The Rural Development (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 amend the EU regulation that provides the general rules and structures governing support for rural development, providing payments to be made to agreement holders and laying down rules on programming, networking, management, monitoring and evaluation.

The Rural Development (Rules and Decisions) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 amend the implementing and delegated provisions made under the main rural development EU regulation and four implementing decisions approving the rural development programmes for each of the devolved authorities.

The European Structural and Investment Funds Common Provisions (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 amend the EU regulation that sets out the shared framework for all the European structural and investment funds, but only as far as applies to rural development and maritime and fisheries.

Finally, the European Structural and Investment Funds Common Provisions Rules etc. (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 amend the supplementary provisions for European structural and investment funds for rural development and maritime and fisheries that are not dealt with elsewhere.

I emphasise that all these instruments remedy the deficiencies in the regulations to ensure that they continue to operate effectively when we leave. They do not introduce new policy, are technical in nature and preserve the current regime for supporting rural businesses, environmental land management and sustainable fisheries, among other matters. The amendments include omitting deficient references to the European Commission and member states and replacing them with references to either the UK or the relevant authority, as appropriate. The instruments also amend references to “Union law” throughout, so that the relevant EU regulations continue to operate effectively as part of national law. Provisions that are deficient because they are time-limited and under which the relevant actions have occurred have also been omitted, such as provisions relating to ex ante evaluations that have already been completed and provisions relating to prefinancing paid out when the programmes were initially set up. In addition, references to European institutions such as the European Investment Bank are also omitted.

One purpose of these modifications is to ensure continuity and clarity as to which public bodies have responsibilities towards the programmes. The obligations and discretions placed on member states will continue to be exercised after exit by relevant authorities in the UK. In this context, “relevant authority” means: the current managing authority of the maritime and fisheries operational programme, the Marine Management Organisation; the Secretary of State in relation to the Rural Development Programme for England; Scottish Ministers in relation to the Scottish Rural Development Programme; Welsh Ministers in relation to the Rural Development Programme for Wales; and the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs in relation to the Northern Ireland Rural Development Programme.

As noble Lords are well aware, agriculture and fisheries are devolved policy areas and are of special importance for all parts of the kingdom. We have worked closely with the devolved Administrations to produce these instruments; they place great importance on them and have given them their full support. I repeat that these statutory instruments are required for the continued operation of the rural development programmes and the maritime and fisheries programme. Without them, there would be no legal powers to make payments to fulfil the promises that these important programmes will continue. I beg to move.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for bringing forward this little group of statutory instruments. I shall pursue what was raised in Sub-Committee B’s report—the 18th report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. The Sub-Committee has invited this Committee to probe for more financial information. I have a series of questions and I shall try not to repeat myself.

There will be schemes that have finished, and new schemes that will commence but end after a key date—that could be 2021-22. What advice are my noble friend and his department giving to those who may be in a position to enter a new scheme but are reluctant to do so, since they are not sure whether it will complete and what the funding will be for it? My understanding is that there are schemes that fall into that category, and concern has been raised.

Paragraph 7.5 of the Explanatory Memorandum to the rural development regulations says:

“On EU exit, the UK will seek reimbursement from the EU for all CAP payments made to beneficiaries up to 29 March 2019”.


On what basis? We are still members of the European Union, so I would just like to know what the legal basis is for that. It seems very odd, because we are committed to the EU schemes between 2014 and 2019. It says “up to”, so I just ask for clarification, because I do not understand what the legal basis is. It goes on to say:

“Thereafter, such funding will be provided by HM Treasury”.


I know this is of great interest to the farming press and the farming community generally. What is the budget from which those funds will be provided, going forward?

The paragraph goes on:

“The UK Government has guaranteed that any EAFRD projects, where funding has been agreed before the end of 2020, will be funded for their full lifetime”.


Again, it would be helpful to know where these funds are coming from. It continues:

“The guarantee also means that Defra and the devolved administrations can continue to sign new projects this year and during 2020”.


What will be the duration of those schemes? Again, where will the money come from? It goes on:

“In addition, the Government has pledged to continue to commit the same … total in funds for farm support until the end of this Parliament, expected in 2022”.


This has been exercising me for some time. The Government have consistently said that we are committed to paying money until the end of this Parliament, which is expected in 2022. It begs the question: if a general election—heaven forfend—is held before 2022, possibly this year, does that leave the door open for a newly elected Government to cease to pay those funds for those three years, from 2019 to 2022, particularly if there is a change of Government? It is just not clear and it gives us the opportunity to clarify that this afternoon.

Brexit: Food Labelling and Food Safety

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 11th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to ensure that food labelling enables traceability and for the United Kingdom to participate in the Rapid Alert System for Food and Feed following the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the European Union.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, food traceability is required by law and enabled by accurate record-keeping at all stages of the food supply chain, supported by mandatory on-label requirements. Existing traceability and supporting labelling requirements will be carried over into UK law through the European Union (Withdrawal) Act, ensuring continued high levels of safety. While comprehensive contingency plans are in place, the Government remain committed to negotiating full access to RASFF, recognising that continued data sharing will be mutually beneficial.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful for that Answer. My noble friend will be aware that every 10 years or so, there is a potential food scare—I am thinking of BSE, foot-and-mouth and the fraud scandal of horse-gate. At the moment, there are 10 food alerts each day and Britain is one of the major beneficiaries from the European rapid alert system. Will my noble friend ensure that our remaining part of that scheme is concluded at the earliest possible time and if we crash out of the EU without a deal, we will take precautions? This is not the time for the UK to go UK-centric. We need to keep our food as safe as possible for both human and animal consumption.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend. It is absently paramount that there is confidence in our food and I believe that the FSA is well equipped to provide that. It has been upscaling to increase its capacity and capability. Of course, the optimum is that we should remain part of RASFF and in point of fact it is mutually beneficial because we are one of the most active contributors to it. However, we are also strengthening our links through the WHO’s INFOSAN network, enhancing stakeholder engagement and improving through the FSA’s strategic surveillance programme. I absolutely take the point that it is paramount that our food remains safe, and we are ensuring that.

Brexit: Food Imports

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Thursday 7th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, we have been working closely with the Food Standards Agency on all these matters. Careful consideration has been done with the APHA, the Food Standards Agency and HMRC precisely to ascertain whether the ports and their health authorities have the appropriate facilities to accommodate the 6,000 additional checks that we think would be required because of those transit goods, but—

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I had better stop now.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

My Lords, I apologise. Will my noble friend satisfy those of us in this place and food inspectors that the regulations required to be in place will be passed before 29 March? What is the timetable for bringing them forward?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, obviously, we need to be ready in this case for transit goods— which I take it is the subject of the Question—and the 6,000 additional checks. Imports will have to be pre-notified. Work is well advanced with importers and agents. It is clear that those items that would not be inspected within the EU must be inspected and checked at UK points of entry. That is precisely what we have been working on and the Border Delivery Group has insisted on it.

Infrastructure Planning (Water Resources) (England) Order 2018

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 26th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, I beg to move the Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I do not wish to detain the House, but I could not be in the Grand Committee on Wednesday and I have a very simple question. I congratulate my noble friend on bringing this order to the House, but my concern relates to the provisions of the Reservoirs Act 1971. We need more reservoirs and more water to be retained on land by farmers, landowners, golf clubs and caravan parks. Can he put my mind at rest that this provision will be entirely in keeping with, or even amend, the Reservoirs Act to make that possible?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I understand that it is the Reservoirs Act 1975. This provision deals with the Planning Act 2008 and, as I described in Grand Committee, this is an entirely separate matter. All matters relating to safety encompassed by these major projects also come within the prism of the Reservoirs Act 1975, so these are extensions of the Planning Act 2008.

Roundup

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Wednesday 31st October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the recent case was a civil court case with a non-expert jury. There was no new scientific evidence presented regarding safety as part of the court case, and so it does not raise doubts about the scientific assessments underpinning the EU approval decision. Of course, we have in this country, and through the EU as well, very strict rules about authorisations and approvals. There are many requirements for Roundup, and it is important that it is used responsibly, but it is safe.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, the European Chemicals Agency has ruled that Roundup and glyphosates are not carcinogens. Against that background, will my noble friend continue to ensure that the Government use independent scientific advice to enable the farmer to use crop protection to protect against pests that will otherwise damage crops?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My noble friend encapsulates what is so important on this issue: the Government, indeed, through the EU, act on the expert opinion of scientists. That is the only way in which we can base this. It is important for farmers and indeed for those of us seeking to deal with ground elder and other weeds. We want to move to greater precision-farming and innovation, and agri-tech will help with that.

Sustainable Fisheries for Future Generations

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Wednesday 4th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, knowledge and understanding of sustainability is obviously not possible without scientific evidence and research. Clearly, Cefas is an outstanding place of research. Of course, I think that it is world-leading and will furnish us. In discussions, knowledge of zonal attachment and how we work with fish stocks not respecting borders—we share fish stocks in so many cases—means that we need to work in co-operation. Indeed, the spirit of co-operation is an essential part of international law on fisheries. Cefas will provide us with research, but there are excellent research bodies all around the world.

I should say to my noble friend Lady Byford that I forgot about the under-10 metre category. Further allocations have been made with unused quota. It is a very important area of our fishing world.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I also welcome the Statement. Currently, we benefit from research from the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea—ICES—which is situated in Copenhagen. I visited it last year. A number of British, Irish and other officials work there, and they are particularly keen to understand that we will continue to benefit independently from ICES research once we have left the European Union. Will my noble friend take this opportunity to explain the difference between the International Law of the Sea Convention putting our territorial limit at 12 nautical miles—which I understood would also cover fisheries policy—and the 200 miles announced by the Secretary of State in the White Paper?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, any access to EU bodies will be subject to negotiation, but, as I said, collaboration and co-operation will be extremely important. On the other issue raised by my noble friend, I am looking for a definition. My understanding is definitely that we will now be responsible for up to 200 nautical miles or whatever the median line is with another country. I am very happy to put a copy of the map in the Library so that your Lordships can see how this will work for the UK and other countries, so there will be a clear understanding of the waters for which we, under international law, would be responsible.

Water: Bills and Executive Remuneration

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Tuesday 3rd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the noble Baroness’s question is extremely timely. Only today, Ofwat published a summary of the changes to the upcoming price review process, which were discussed with my right honourable friend the Secretary of State, who agrees entirely with Ofwat’s actions. It will require companies to share the benefits of high levels of debt finance with customers, ensure that performance-related executive pay rewards genuinely stretching performance —which benefits customers—and be transparent about dividends and explain how they relate to costs and service delivery to customers. If necessary, we will go further.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interests in the register; I also co-chair the All-Party Parliamentary Water Group. Does my noble friend the Minister agree that Britain was the dirty man of Europe in the 1980s and, through privatisation and EU environmental directives, we have now improved water quality? Going forward, what benchmarks will the Government use to continue to improve water quality in this country?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

As my noble friend said precisely, we wish to improve water quality. Let us be clear: since privatisation, customers are eight times less likely to suffer sewer flooding. The number of serious water pollution incidents caused by the water industry reduced significantly from over 500 in the early 1990s to 57 in 2016. Clearly, there is room for improvement. That is what both Ofwat and we in Defra want. In terms of what has been achieved with the £140 billion investment since privatisation, our water quality is improving and we want it to improve even more.

Flood Risk

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 11th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, and refer to my interests in the register.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, between 2015 and 2021, we are investing £2.6 billion in managing flood risk, including 1,500 flood defence schemes using both hard engineering and natural flood management solutions. As a result, 300,000 homes, 690,000 acres of agricultural land, 279 miles of railway and more than 5,000 miles of roads will be better protected. A further £1 billion is being spent to maintain defences.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

Will my noble friend look favourably on the report to be published next week, entitled Bricks and Water, by the Westminster Sustainable Business Forum, the two central conclusions of which are that that the new environmental body will have real teeth when it comes to upholding environmental standards in flood protection and that farmers could be reimbursed for public good, such as retaining water on land? I know that my noble friend and the Department are keen on natural flood defences such as Pickering’s Slowing the Flow, and I hope that that will be the model.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, we are consulting on the new body, but we have strong aspirations, particularly with our 25-year environment plan, to enhance the environment, and of course that involves reducing risk from natural hazards such as flooding. Given the responses to the Health and Harmony consultation on future farming arrangements, we are also exploring ways to incentivise farming methods that reduce flood risk. Slowing the Flow, at Pickering, to which my noble friend refers, is a good example of natural flood management.

Mandatory Use of Closed Circuit Television in Slaughterhouses (England) Regulations 2018

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Tuesday 27th March 2018 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, I am very pleased to introduce these important regulations on the mandatory use of closed circuit television in slaughterhouses in England. These regulations meet the Government’s manifesto commitment to make CCTV recording in slaughterhouses mandatory. Our manifesto commitment reflected widespread public concern over animal welfare in slaughterhouses. They are made under powers in Section 12 of the Animal Welfare Act 2006.

The Government have encouraged the voluntary uptake of CCTV in slaughterhouses, but the number of slaughterhouses with CCTV has stalled in recent years, with only 50% of red meat slaughterhouses and 70% of white meat slaughterhouses having some CCTV for animal welfare purposes in 2016. Those slaughterhouses which had installed CCTV had not always done so comprehensively. In 2016, only 46% of those slaughterhouses with CCTV had coverage in the unloading area. The level of CCTV coverage was even lower in the stun area, with less than 40% of slaughterhouses having CCTV in this area or in the bleed area. So even in slaughterhouses where CCTV is installed, key areas are not currently covered by cameras.

The Farm Animal Welfare Committee, FAWC, produced an independent assessment of the benefits of CCTV in slaughterhouses in February 2015. It identified CCTV as offering real benefits as an important complement to official inspection of slaughterhouse practices and as an evidential method of recording animal welfare abuses.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Will my noble friend confirm that this is not taking away the need for a vet to be present for the inspection?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I will of course address that. I am grateful to my noble friend.

FAWC also identified the significant benefits of CCTV systems to slaughterhouse operators, from in-house review of their operations and effective staff training to providing evidence of due diligence, which can increase public confidence in the meat industry and its adherence to the UK’s high animal welfare standards. FAWC’s report provided a useful basis for the Government’s proposals on mandatory CCTV which we published last summer. We received nearly 4,000 responses to this public consultation, with more than 99% in favour of mandatory CCTV recording in all slaughterhouses.

These regulations will require all slaughterhouse operators to install and operate a CCTV system that provides a clear and complete picture of areas where live animals are present. This will include where animals are unloaded, lairaged, handled, restrained, stunned and killed. We would expect CCTV installations and their use to be proportionate to the size of premises and their throughput. Slaughterhouse operators will be required to provide access to CCTV recordings for the official veterinarian of the Food Standards Agency and other authorised inspectors. An official veterinarian is required in every slaughterhouse when in operation. Access to CCTV recordings for monitoring, verification and enforcement purposes is essential and will be especially useful where the official veterinarian is undertaking other duties in the slaughterhouse and does not directly witness an incident.

We would expect official veterinarians to carry out a timely review of CCTV to address any immediate welfare incidents and take advisory or enforcement action. Nevertheless, the slaughterhouse operator will need to retain recorded images and information for 90 days. This is in line with the requirements of some farm assurance schemes. While CCTV should not replace, reduce or be considered a substitute for the current inspection and control of slaughterhouse practices by official veterinarians, access to CCTV recordings will provide more opportunities to assess compliance with animal welfare requirements on a proactive and reactive basis. Requirements for mandatory CCTV recording should be applied to all approved slaughterhouses on the basis that all animals should be offered the same level of protection at the time of killing.

Ninety-five per cent of our meat is killed in abattoirs which have CCTV in some form. The regulations ensure that all slaughterhouses of whatever size must now have CCTV at all stages of the process.

Northern Forest

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 26th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, we have come some way from frigates being built from wood but, wherever we are, we want to plant more trees. The important point about the northern forest is that it is overwhelmingly in an urban area. We are going through all the cities of the north, which means that the environment in those great cities will be enhanced. The northern forest is in parallel with the northern powerhouse initiative, and is great news for all the communities along it.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend on the contribution that the Government are making to the northern forest. As a Yorkshire Water customer, I am delighted that it is planting trees in its own right. Will my noble friend agree that perhaps we should look at building ships from trees?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

Well, my Lords, I think we should plant trees not just to supply the Royal Navy. It is certainly important that we are growing our own trees. That is why I am delighted that the trees planted on behalf of the Government will all be grown and sourced in this country. I think “Grown in Britain” is a very important feature of biosecurity.

Food Safety Standards: Brexit

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Thursday 11th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I am grateful for this opportunity, because clearly, as I said, the withdrawal Bill will bring back legal requirements on to our statute book. Yes, of course we want to have a vibrant trade arrangement with the United States of America—I hope all your Lordships wish to have vibrant trade arrangements around the world; we are a trading nation after all—but we have been very clear that we are not going to water down or compromise on the standards I have set out. Indeed, they will be transferred into our own domestic law. The very points that the noble Baroness raised will be on the statute book.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the Food Standards Agency will have a key role to play in ensuring high food safety standards? This will obviously have resource and staff implications, and a whole raft of regulatory instruments will presumably have to be adopted. What is the Government’s proposed timetable to approve them?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, all the agencies, including the Food Standards Agency, play a hugely important role in terms of consumer confidence. It is important that we ensure that the resources are put in place—as we are doing in Defra, with additional resources to deal with many of these things—so that we can continue to have the confidence that we should have. I want to be clear again: we will not compromise on the standards that will be on the statute book. Those are the requirements that we will adhere to in any trade deals.

Brexit: Environmental Enforcement Agency

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 8th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the whole purpose of the detailed consideration and our consultation is to decide, and to have reflection from stakeholders, on the best way forward. That is why, at this stage, we have not made a firm decision as to the route because we think we should not pre-empt what is a serious consultation. As to the matter of agriculture, we have been very clear that we wish there to be a transitional phase. However, the arrangements in the withdrawal Bill are that existing EU law will be brought on to the UK statute book. What we are looking at is how we deal with the situation after we have left the European Union and, potentially, after an implementation period.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend explain to the House what the situation will be for EU directives that are currently being revised but which will be approved by the European Union before the point of departure? Will he also explain what the relationship will be between this statutory independent body and the existing Environment Agency?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, we will continue to implement EU legislation that is on the statute book. The whole purpose is to have certainty on the statute book. What we want with this new environmental body is to ensure that there is not a governance gap and that in our wish to enhance the environment, government and, potentially, other public bodies can be held to account. We think that that is very important indeed.

Air Quality

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Tuesday 28th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that diesel cars—I must confess that I drive one—are extremely important in rural areas and for people who drive long distances? Will he ensure that any future false reporting by manufacturers will be penalised, so that the vehicle driver is not left to pick up the pieces? Surely this is an area in which he can work very closely with BEIS.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a very strong point. Manufacturers undoubtedly have a responsibility. What happened with Volkswagen was a disgrace. Clearly, we do not seek to punish those drivers who in good faith went for diesel, but there was a dash for diesel, which we all now very much regret.

Farm Support

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Thursday 16th November 2017 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, I agree entirely with your Lordships that we should congratulate my noble friend Lady McIntosh on securing this debate on agriculture and farm support. I declare my farming interests as set out in the register.

As we leave the European Union, the Government are clear on establishing a strong and productive agriculture and food industry which promotes great British food, strengthens rural communities and maintains high animal welfare standards—all while enhancing our environment. As your Lordships have said, we have a world-class food and farming industry generating more than £100 billion a year for our economy. More than 70% of UK land is farmed. The production-to-supply ratio of indigenous food is 76%, as we heard from my noble friend Lord Caithness. I also agree with my noble friend Lord Caithness that farming and food production are the very backbone of the countryside—and in my view of the country. Farmers have an essential role in ensuring that we leave our environment in a better state than we found it. After all, earlier generations of farmers and landowners, as the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, said, were the architects of our extraordinarily beautiful landscape. A vibrant agricultural sector and the enhancement of our natural environment are entirely complementary. Given the salutary lessons from New Zealand, as outlined by my noble friend Lord Caithness, I need not say much more. So leaving the common agricultural policy provides us with an opportunity to ensure that future agricultural policy supports farmers to grow, sell and export more great British food, as pointed out by my noble friend Lady Redfern.

We are actively engaged with farmers and farming organisations as we develop policies that we believe will provide support more effectively than the CAP does. As highlighted by the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, we must ensure that we have a system of agricultural support that respects the work of farmers and rewards environmental protection and enhancement. That means support for natural capital and ecosystem services, referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, and my noble friend Lady Wilcox, such as woodland creation and tree planting, encouraging biodiversity, and high standards of animal welfare. By using public money to reward environmentally responsible land use and activities that enhance the countryside and protect landscapes, we provide the taxpayer with better value for money.

The Government absolutely understand that clarity is required in the farming sector at this time of great change. The noble Lord, Lord Cameron, rightly raises the importance of how a smooth transition for farmer is required. That matter was also referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, and my noble friend Lady McIntosh. We have therefore made a commitment to maintain the same cash total in funds for farm support until 2022 and to honour agri-environment agreements made while in the EU, provided that they align with domestic priorities and our future farming vision.

The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, and a number of your Lordships mentioned labour. Defra is considering the latest data and working closely with the industry and across government to monitor labour demand and supply, including the seasonal workforce. We want to enable farmers to develop new markets and provide vital public services. We must therefore support the adoption of new technologies and techniques to improve productivity in food production. In 2013, the UK Government agri-tech strategy was launched, with £80 million invested in four world-class centres of agricultural innovation to support the adoption of innovation and technology in the food and farming supply chain, while improving biosecurity. Last week, at Harper Adams I observed the benefits of precision farming and the importance of such centres in bolstering young farmers’ expertise. In response to my noble friend Lord Kirkhope, the enthusiasm of this next generation of farmers, and their appreciation of the intrinsic interdependence of food production, the environment and animal welfare, was one of the most evident features of my visit. Further to this, as my right honourable friend the Secretary of State announced, the Government have allocated £40 million to the countryside productivity scheme to help farmers improve productivity through investment in innovative technology. Indeed, the Government’s industrial strategy further commits to boosting the adoption of technical precision farming.

When we leave the EU, we will remain global leaders in environmental protection and animal welfare standards, maintaining our high-quality produce for British and international consumers. Noble Lords have rightly raised the importance of trade. We are a trading nation; we always have been and always will be. I was most grateful to my noble friend Lady McIntosh for referring to the work we are undertaking with our food counsellor in China and the other work going on overseas.

For the first time in more than 40 years, whatever our views on last June’s result, we have a golden opportunity to negotiate trade deals with the world. Around 60% of UK agricultural exports currently go the EU, as noble Lords have mentioned. Therefore, our focus is on securing the best deal for farmers in our negotiations, transition and readiness for day one as we leave. We are conducting a rigorous analysis of the full range of trade scenarios on UK agriculture to ensure the best possible trading future for our farmers. My noble friend Lady Wilcox asked about the WTO arrangements. We are currently considering what tariff rate quotas and amber box allocation the UK should create as part of our detailed work in preparation for the draft of the UK’s independent WTO schedule. My noble friend Lady McIntosh also asked dispute resolution in regard to which conflict resolution procedure will apply when we leave the EU. This issue will form part of our negotiation with the EU, as one would expect.

We should be proud that we have some of the highest animal welfare standards in the world. Let me be clear to your Lordships: there will be no reduction in our welfare standards, our food security standards or our environmental protections as we leave the EU. The Government have committed direct funding to research programmes with the Animal Health and Welfare Board for England, the Farm Animal Welfare Committee, the Animal and Horticultural Development Board and research councils. Only this morning, I was having a discussion with the chairs of those boards and that committee about advancing knowledge on welfare.

I should clarify my noble friend Lady McIntosh’s remarks regarding the live export of animals. Once we leave the EU, and in line with our manifesto commitment, we can take early steps to control the export of live farm animals for slaughter. This has been widely welcomed but I want to clarify that traditionally we have also exported live animals because their breeding standard is of the best. I particularly want to refer in the short time that I have to equines. I am fully seized of the importance of this, as the passports currently used for the travel of thoroughbreds used in racing and breeding, as well as other sport horses in the tripartite agreement, is tremendously important. The TPA will be the subject of negotiations when the UK leaves the EU and the Government will seek the best deal possible, as exemplified in the new TPA that was signed off in 2013. Indeed, I have been in correspondence only this morning on these matters.

Our partnership and ongoing engagement with a wide range of stakeholders will ensure that we have a farming and environmental land management policy which supports current and future generations of farmers to follow the best approaches to soil health management. A number of your Lordships raised this crucial point. The policy will also support them to adopt advances in agri-tech, produce quality food and enhance our natural environment. We recognise that future policy must work effectively for all UK agriculture—the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, and my noble friend Lady Wilcox spoke of this. The Secretary of State meets devolved Administration Ministers regularly to discuss the importance of co-operative working and future frameworks. We are committed to continued flexibility in how the devolved nations manage their future farm support subject, we believe correctly, to preserving a single internal market and compliance with our international obligations.

The European Union (Withdrawal) Bill will convert the existing body of EU agriculture law into UK law. We will introduce an agriculture Bill and we intend to consult widely with interested stakeholders ahead of publishing plans for that Bill. The Secretary of State has signalled his intention to consult in the new year and I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, and all of your Lordships will participate. Our proposals for the future agricultural policy will reflect the Government’s aim of securing a better future for agriculture and food production, while enhancing the environment and rural communities. As my noble friend Lady McIntosh mentioned, we must support farmers across the UK, from the uplands to the lowlands. I agree with my noble friend Lord Kirkhope and, as a member of the NFU and a supporter of the RABI, I share his remarks as to the social pressures and challenges of farming. I also know and understand that farming is exposed to great degrees of volatility, so we must develop a system that helps farmers to face the future.

Our vision for British agriculture is based on a sustainable, productive and competitive industry. This will be set out in our 25-year environment plan, which I hope will please my noble friend Lord Caithness. A great deal of work is under way on what our future farming policy will look like. This is being undertaken through active engagement with all farming interests. We are committed to supporting agriculture, food security, high- quality food and, essentially, the British farmer.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend on the success of the Beijing consultant. Will the Government be minded to look at other such in other countries?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, we are looking at a global trade situation, so I am sure we will be looking at all parts of the world.

Brexit: Farm Support

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 6th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what recent discussions they have had with farming organisations about the future of farm support post-Brexit.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register.

Ministers and officials met farming organisations and individual farmers across the United Kingdom on more than 45 separate occasions between July and October. We continue to work closely with farming organisations on the important issue of future farm support. We want to see farmers producing high-quality food, meeting animal health and welfare standards and enhancing the environment, and we are actively engaging with farmers to achieve these complementary aims.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend recognise the value to hill farmers in north Yorkshire and other areas of the export of live animals for fattening, processing and breeding, and indeed for racing purposes? Will he take this opportunity to give the House a categorical assurance that this trade in live animals—albeit it is small compared with the trade in carcasses—will continue, and also update the House on the tripartite agreement on racing to ensure that the free movement of horses for racing purposes will continue after Brexit?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, there are a number of distinctions there that I should draw to the attention of noble Lords. The Government are clear that they would prefer animals to be slaughtered close to the point of production, and we intend to take steps to control the export of live farm animals for slaughter. Obviously, we desire our very good livestock to go abroad in terms of breeding, and I am fully seized of the importance—having spent a day at Newmarket, not just on the course but in Newmarket generally—of the equine sector as well as the tripartite agreement between Ireland, France and this country. We are working on that because I am fully seized of the importance of the equine sector.

Inshore Fisheries

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 3rd July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I say to the noble Baroness that the chief executive of the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations has said today that our giving withdrawal notice from the London fisheries convention,

“is welcome news and an important part of establishing the UK as an independent coastal state with sovereignty over its own exclusive economic zone”.

The noble Baroness says that the fisheries sector makes a small contribution to our GDP, but it contributes £1.3 billion to the economy, employs 34,600 people in 6,000 fishing vessels, and landed 708,000 tonnes of fish worth £775 million. To the coastal and fishing communities of this country, the United Kingdom, that is a very important consequence. I assure her and your Lordships that we will be very conscious of their interests.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, does this mean that the inshore fishermen, with vessels under 10 metres, will have a higher quota? That would be very good news.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I am sure your Lordships will understand that these issues are all subject to negotiation. However, one of the things that we wish to do, in having the ability to control our own waters, is have a sustainable domestic fishing industry.

Agriculture: Foreign Workers

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Wednesday 28th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask Her Majesty's Government what discussions they have had with farmers and growers on access to foreign workers; and whether they intend to reintroduce the Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register. We are fully seized of this issue now and for the future. These matters have been discussed by the Secretary of State and the Minister of State with key stakeholders over recent weeks. The Government will commission advice from the Migration Advisory Committee. Working with business and communities, we will develop a future migration system which works for all and meets labour market needs in this sector.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for that Answer. From his regular meetings with farmers and growers, he will be aware of the critical shortage of vegetable pickers and growers, with a 17% shortfall this year—in May alone there were 1,500 job vacancies. Will my noble friend assure the House today that he and the Home Office will review the seasonal agricultural workers scheme with the utmost urgency with a view to its reintroduction? If we have a weak pound, as we have at the moment, and if we have an uncertain position with returners, in particular, who are down by 50%, and with new workers coming to pick from the European Union, will my noble friend assure us that this will be reviewed with regard to the rest of the season and, in particular, to next year and the years ahead?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the seasonal agricultural workers scheme is kept under careful, ongoing review. Indeed, when it was stopped in 2013, Defra established a SAWS transition working group, which continues to bring industry and government together to monitor the situation. I absolutely agree with my noble friend: it is very important that we work very closely with this sector. We have wonderful produce in this country; it is something that I know the Secretary of State and the Minister of State are fully seized upon and we are working not only, obviously, for the harvest of next year but the harvests later on—

Recycling: Plastic Bottles

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Tuesday 28th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the scheme that operates in Denmark works very successfully? It is not government led; my understanding is that it is led by industry and that the work is done by the supermarkets, which pay to put the facilities in. Is this not the type of leadership that we should look to—that is, leadership from the industry, where it saves money in the process as well?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I want to express my thanks to business across the piece for being involved in the litter strategy. One thing to come across strongly is the importance for its reputation that business sees in assisting us with recycling and with avoiding litter. I want to endorse what my noble friend has said: business is key to the success of this.

Air Pollution

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Tuesday 21st February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, it is important to ensure that what happens in the laboratory is also what happens in real driving tests. That is why the Government have been at the forefront of calls for action to introduce real driving emissions testing. This is clearly essential to meeting our air quality goals, and the test will come in from September this year. I think the right reverend Prelate talked about extending to cars the whole purpose and thrust of the Government’s investment, along with others, which is to ensure that we have low-emission vehicles. We are one of the leading countries in this area and I think we will see very good results from that leadership.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate the Government on their recent consultation on air quality, and I have been looking through some of the responses. Perhaps I may declare an interest in that I was encouraged by successive Governments to buy a diesel car, which I then did. What is the Government’s policy on potentially introducing a scrappage system? How would they intend to pay for such a system, and, assuming that we will have left the European Union by 2020, which body will in future police nitrogen dioxide limits?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, on the question of a scrappage scheme, we are obviously considering the steps needed following the High Court ruling on updated data emissions from diesel vehicles, but we think that the use of clean air zones is a more targeted and proportionate approach to dealing with emissions. Moreover, we are pressing on with plans in five cities and we are working with the Mayor of London. On the issue of a post-Brexit regime, all the regulations on this will come into our domestic law. The air quality regulations were made under the European Communities Act and so will be preserved via the great repeal Bill.

Animal Welfare: Penalties

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 16th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the Animal Welfare Act 2006 is very clear. Anyone who has any concerns about animal cruelty cases should, of course, report them to the local authority or the police.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, badger baiting was the most despicable crime, but does my noble friend agree that, where a list is drafted to put species such as bats or newts on to a protected basis, this should be reviewed at least every seven years? When was such a review last undertaken by the department?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I will have to look into my noble friend’s precise question. Obviously, it is good practice that all laws should be kept under review.

Brexit: Support for Farming

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Wednesday 11th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register. Farming is uniquely important in producing food, to the environment, for supporting the rural economy and in shaping the countryside. My department is carrying out detailed analysis on future agricultural policy. Before issuing detailed proposals, we will shortly be publishing for consultation two Green Papers setting out our ambitions for food and farming and for the environment. This will be a crucial stage in the ongoing discussion on policy options with our stakeholders as we shape future arrangements.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for that Answer. He is aware of my long-standing interest in farming. Will he give the House an assurance today that those farmers who farm in upland areas, in particular smaller farmers and those in less favoured areas, will attract the main support and that any farming support will be linked to active farming but will also recognise the work that farmers do in public good for the local community, such as retaining flood water? How long will the consultation period be, and will he ensure that farmers will have equal opportunities with environmental lobbies to be consulted in this area?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I give my noble friend the absolute assurance that these two consultations on the two Green Papers will allow the environment and farming to run hand in hand, as they have always done when they work well. We are looking forward to farming interests and all other interests making a contribution. We absolutely want a world-leading agricultural industry and an improved environment. The two can work hand in hand.

Flood Defences

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Thursday 1st December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the announcement in the Autumn Statement of £170 million to be invested in flood defence and resilience measures, and in the light of damage to farmland and property caused by the recent floods, whether they intend to extend the provisions of the Flood Re scheme to farms and small businesses.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register. There are no plans to extend Flood Re, because it is based on council tax bands and was specifically designed by the insurance industry for households at the highest flood risk. This would include farm-houses under a domestic policy. We are, however, working with the British Insurance Brokers’ Association, BIBA, which is launching a commercial product very shortly that provides flood insurance to businesses.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his Answer and refer to my interests in the register. Does my noble friend agree that this insurance must be affordable? Does he further agree that it is particular rural areas that have suffered extensive damage from recent and historic flooding? Will the Government agree that the 2% increase in the insurance premium tax will be spent on flood defence measures to make sure that flood damage will be less pervasive in future?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, it would be fair to explain that £2.5 billion—a six-year capital flood programme allocated to DEFRA to 2021—is the route to protect more than 300,000 homes, 205 miles of railway and 340 miles of roads. This is the way that we will overwhelmingly ensure that more of not only our urban but our rural areas are better protected. Included in that programme will be £1.5 billion of benefits for agriculture. However, I will bear in mind what my noble friend said and will write to her.

Animal Welfare: Puppy Farms

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Tuesday 7th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, 86% of dogs are now microchipped and we believe that that is the way forward, not the dog licence system. Certainly, that is making a considerable difference in terms of rehoming pets to their owners and reducing the cost to local authorities and stray homes. Local authorities, of course, have the powers to retrieve the costs of licences.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Will my noble friend give the figures for those dogs that are currently being microchipped? Will the Government send out the message that no puppy should be sold when the mother of the dog—the bitch—is not present?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

As I say, my Lords, our advice to prospective owners is to see the puppy with its mother and never to buy a puppy younger than eight weeks. That is really important and I would encourage responsible pet owners to reflect on that advice.

Water Billing

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Thursday 3rd March 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, that is certainly not the intention. As I have said, there is a trend towards smart meters. With the arrival of a smart meter, the tendency is to reduce consumption by about 10%. The water companies are very mindful of those customers in vulnerable circumstances. Schemes already exist to help 760,000 households, and the companies forecast that by 2020 they will help 1.8 million households. There are also social tariffs to assist them, which all companies will have by end of this year.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I declare my interest in the register. Does my noble friend agree that the voluntary use of meters has made a massive contribution to allowing people to manage their budgets? Will the Government go further and introduce legislative measures to tackle bad debt, which is adding £22 to the average bill for water services?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I do not believe that it is the intention at this stage to introduce legislation. The water companies do not want to have bad debt; clearly it is not in their interest. But because there are such difficulties, particularly with customers in vulnerable circumstances, there are social tariffs. At the moment they help 30,000 households; by 2020, the companies forecast that it will be about 380,000 households. But, clearly we want to ensure that bad debt is reduced.

Agriculture: Dairy Farmers

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 22nd February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and refer to my entry in the Register of Lords’ Interests.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My Lords, increased global milk production, along with the Russian trade embargo and weaker demand in China, has resulted in surplus stocks and downward pressure on worldwide prices. This has had a significant impact on British farmers. Average incomes are expected to fall to £46,000 in 2015-16, although there are considerable variations. Some farmers have sought to offset low prices by producing more. Lower prices for feed, fertiliser and fuel have also helped to reduce farmers’ costs.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

Will my noble friend agree to review the remit of the Groceries Code Adjudicator to end the gross imbalance between small, often family, dairy farmers and huge processors, many of which are seeking to consolidate, and put an end to the retail price war that is damaging the future of the family dairy farmer?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I should declare an interest in that I come from a long-standing dairy farming family. I therefore clearly have considerable sympathy with the plight of dairy farmers. The Groceries Code Adjudicator has no powers over prices. However, we are looking at a number of issues in relation to suppliers and processors to see whether there are ways in which we can make improvements. I am pleased that a number of supermarkets—I encourage other chains to do so—see that they have a responsibility to the domestic dairy industry.

Farming: Basic Payment Scheme

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Tuesday 19th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I refer to my interests in the register.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register. The Rural Payments Agency began making full payments on the first day of the payment window and by the end of December had paid 51% of eligible claims. It remains on track to pay the vast majority by the end of this month. Rural Payments, the IT system, has been used to process claims and make payments for 2015, and is working well. It will continue to be used for 2016 and beyond.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister for that reply. Will he explain what “the vast majority” means in numbers? How will those farmers who have not yet received a letter saying that they will not be paid know when they will be paid? Will he look particularly at any delays that have been caused for those farming common land through issues relating to mapping and registration of rights?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I do not think that I am in a position to say what exactly “vast majority” means. However, I can tell my noble friend that as of yesterday the RPA had paid more than 57,700 claims—that is two-thirds of the total and some £779 million—and is now clearly focused on paying the remainder as soon as possible. My noble friend is absolutely right that one area where there is a likelihood of payments being somewhat later is that relating to common land, but the RPA is using all its endeavours to get the final payments out as soon as is possible.

Flooding

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Monday 7th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for raising those important issues. I will take his comments back, with some of his detailed points on upstream storage, re-engineering, water levels at Thirlmere, bridges, and the use of reservoirs and other places to keep water back when we can. The whole area of water asset management is clearly going to be important. On housing, the planning guidance on new development has been very clear. I will look into the particular point about Cumbria, but well over 95% of new housing is now not built in flood-risk areas. The noble Lord and I had a conversation about Flood Re after Questions last week. I am looking into the particular point of long-term leaseholders: I hope I can at least help to address this situation.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his Statement. Storm Desmond was clearly an act of God and resulted in flooding of biblical proportions. No matter what preparedness there was, I would defy anybody to find any flood defences that could have protected all the properties. I greatly regret the loss of life and damage to property.

When my noble friend looks at the role of insurance companies in rebuilding homes, will priority be given to developing greater resilience and lowering insurance claims where householders look to increase and improve the resilience of their properties? I declare an interest, as referred to in the register. Also, the first seat I fought was Workington and it is a delight to follow in the footsteps, in this House, of the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours. I support his bid to have a review of the Flood Re categories, particularly for businesses, farms and leasehold properties. There is also the vexatious issue of those on low incomes who cannot afford contents insurance. What regard can we have for them?

Will my noble friend respond to the concern of farmers who will have lost livestock and the use of the land through contamination by these floods and those in 2009? Will he recognise the role of farmers and drainage boards in clearing minor watercourses to allow the flood waters to recede in events such as this? Will he look to introduce novel means of financing future flood defences by levering in private funding? It is in the interests of insurance companies, and water companies, to fund major flood defences in future. If the Minister can be part of that debate, the whole of Cumbria and the United Kingdom will benefit.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, my noble friend spoke about the flood defences. I have now studied this: the extent of the rainfall was so extraordinary that the defences held but were overtopped because of the exceptional levels. However, we obviously need to look at where we can best devote our resources. It is very important that insurance companies work with policyholders: we want remedies there. Greater resilience is going to be very important. There are all sorts of ways in which we can start to encourage people, particularly in areas where flooding is a possibility or even a probability. I should have declared that I am a farmer myself. I therefore recognise the importance of the farming community working to maintain ditches and watercourses going through their property. It is important that we work closely with them, which is why we have regular meetings with the National Farmers’ Union and farming organisations. My noble friend asked about further funding. Partnership funding is going to be very important. It plays a significant role and may well help us ensure that there will be other sources, in addition to the £2.3 billion of government funding, to fund working closely with local communities to get good results.

Flood Defences

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness McIntosh of Pickering

Thursday 3rd December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and declare an interest as a vice-president of the Association of Drainage Authorities.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are committed to long-term investment in new and existing flood defences. Some 96% of the UK’s key flood defences are at or above target condition, with temporary measures in place for those undergoing repair. The department, the Environment Agency and key responders are in a state of heightened readiness to respond rapidly to deploy pumps and temporary barriers, having learnt the lessons from the winter of 2013-14.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

I thank my noble friend the Minister for that Answer, and the key responders and emergency services such as the Environment Agency, local councils, flood wardens and others for all that they do. Will he take this opportunity to confirm that maintenance spending will match capital spending on flood defences and that he will leverage in as much private sector funding to improve flood defences as is possible?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right in acknowledging the work that the vital services, the department, the Environment Agency, the Army and all sorts of voluntary groups do to deal with a dreadful situation when we have flooding of property and land. What the Government are doing by way of maintenance is important. Indeed, it was confirmed in the spending review that the maintenance budget would be safeguarded. It is also very important that we are spending more money on capital projects—£2.3 billion on more than 1,500 schemes. I am pleased to say that in the recovery programme for the maintenance of flood defences, 99.8% of flood defences damaged in the winter of 2013-14 now have permanent repairs. The remaining 0.2% have temporary repairs. Permanent repairs will be in place by March next year.