Deregulation Bill

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness Howe of Idlicote

Monday 16th March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are very clear that the review of the TV licence enforcement regime is a high priority. The overriding aim is to ensure that the system is appropriate, proportionate and fair, and that it represents the best value. This independent review, led by David Perry QC, will identify whether the current enforcement regime is appropriate and proportionate, and will ensure that there is a strong, evidence-based case for any potential changes to the TV licence enforcement regime. Due to the importance of this issue, the decision was taken to commence this review in advance of Royal Assent, while retaining a clause that commits the Government to carry out the review to ensure that this important piece of work is completed in a timely manner. The findings of the review, which will be complete by the end of June 2015, will be laid in both Houses of Parliament and presented to the BBC Trust.

The proposed amendments made in the other place in lieu of Lords Amendment 38 place additional reporting commitments on the Government, but still require that any changes to the licensing regime may not come into force before 1 April 2017. The amendments require the Government of the day to consider the report promptly and properly, setting out their response and the next steps to be taken within three months of the report’s completion. The Secretary of State must report to the House, setting out whether the Government propose to exercise the power to change the sanctions that apply to the failure to have a TV licence, and, if so, detailing the next steps to be taken and to what timetable.

As I have said, the proposed amendments also require that any regulations may not be made so as to come into force before 1 April 2017. We have always maintained that the report’s findings, and potential next steps, should be considered in the context of charter review, and this remains the case. The BBC’s current charter expires on 31 December 2016. The Government will not begin charter review until after the general election, and there is no set process for how the review should be conducted, or when. It will be for the Government of the day to take forward any further actions as they see fit.

We must not pre-empt the recommendations Mr Perry will make, particularly as the public consultation element of this work is currently ongoing. However, it remains the case that any next steps will need to be considered within the scope and timing of the charter review, and it will be for the next Government to ensure that the right enforcement regime for licence fee payers, the courts and indeed the BBC itself is in place. Our amendments ensure that the Government of the day will be committed to consider whatever recommendations David Perry QC wishes to make and to set out their intentions. Any changes that may be introduced must follow a clear timetable to be set out in the Government’s Statement, leading up to when the Secretary of State’s regulation-making power commences in April 2017. I beg to move.

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote (CB)]

My Lords, following the successful vote in your Lordships’ House a week or two ago, we are very pleased to see that the Government have accepted our important amendment to the Bill by including it in their own Motion A. What we now have before us is a cast-iron guarantee that any proposed changes to the licence fee enforcement regime will not take place until at least 1 April 2017 when the current licence fee settlement expires.

In particular, I would like to thank the noble Lords, Lord Stevenson, Lord Clement-Jones, and Lord Grade, for their invaluable support in this matter in signing the original amendment. This cross-party support demonstrated the broad strength of feeling on this whole issue. Any changes imposed before April 2017 would without doubt have had an impact on the BBC’s revenue. The consequences for the BBC’s funding need to be fully considered. Funding, along with everything else to do with the BBC, must be looked at in the context of the upcoming charter review and licence fee settlement.

We recognise that the David Perry QC review into licence fee enforcement is currently taking place, and I understand that the BBC is engaging with the review. Our amendment, now included in the Government’s Motion, does not affect the review’s recommendations or seek to change the outcome, but focuses on the timing of any implementation and ensures that the recommendation can lead into wider discussions that will affect all licence fee payers.

Deregulation Bill

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness Howe of Idlicote

Thursday 5th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

The Government are utterly consistent in their approach.

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his attempts to persuade me and many others that our amendment, which is a thoroughly cross-party amendment, is unnecessary. This debate was one of the most interesting that I have heard in this House—and I listen to a lot of debates. It covered a huge range of issues, approaches and experience. The more I listened to the various questions about why the Government should be able to accept the amendment, the more convinced I was when the Minister argued the other way that there is little doubt about the need to put the question to the vote.

When I introduced this amendment, my approach was a little short of perfect, and I apparently misquoted the odd figure—although £200 million was certainly right. I had it written down, but I read it badly. There were one or two other points. I apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Corston, because I had a word with her outside and I think that she has a point, but not one that is even remotely relevant to what I and many other Members who have spoken were trying to put over. It is something that I would be more than happy to take up with her, because quite clearly if it results in this number of women ending up in prison, with detriment to various members of their family, something is wrong. Let us face it, nothing in this life is perfect and not subject to the need to change at some stage.

I shall not go on because everything that needed to be said was said in the debate. It has completely convinced me that there is a need to test the opinion of the House.

Deregulation Bill

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness Howe of Idlicote

Tuesday 11th November 2014 Grand Committee

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I do not believe that it does. The Government obviously want to be in a position after the report to consider those matters. I have already said that those matters will play a part in the considerations of the charter review but we need to consider what the QC brings forward in his report. I do not think that it conflicts.

We believe that it would be inappropriate to apply a constraint to the timing of implementation of any potential changes to the existing regime and that it would be unnecessarily restrictive to inhibit any potential future changes to the enforcement regime, should the findings of the review lead the Government of the time to be minded to make them through specifying a date before which any change could be implemented. I emphasise that this is about a review of the enforcement. We make no presumptions about the possible outcome or findings of the review. As I have said, the Government have stated that the review findings will be considered in the broader context of the charter review. After June 2015, these matters will take some time but we do not think that there should be an artificial limitation on timing. On that basis, and with the reassurance that they are to be considered in the broader context of the review charter, I ask the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote]

My Lords, first, I thank the Minister for his reply and all noble Lords who have spoken very passionately about what the BBC means to them, their colleagues in different parts of the organisation and the general public, with whom I certainly align myself.

I think we have heard from around the Room a clear feeling that people are very concerned that there is a conspiracy here. The Minister has done his best to reassure us on that point but that overview will remain in everybody’s minds. Quite clearly we will have to look carefully at what was said, especially by the Minister. However, I am fairly sure that this issue is likely to return and be considered at different stages of the Bill. With that point made, I am prepared at this stage to withdraw the amendment.

Children: Online Safety

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness Howe of Idlicote

Tuesday 28th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I can understand my noble friend’s extreme concern about this issue, but it is the case that anything that is illegal offline is also illegal online. On his point about the self-regulatory environment that we have been encouraging—and great progress has been made—with the technological advances in this whole sector, we need to be ahead of the game. That is why we are working to get the internet service providers to be part of the teams, to ensure that the problems to which my noble friend has referred are matters of the past.

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote (CB)]

My Lords, I am sure that we are all very grateful for the progress that the Government have made in protecting children online. Education is also a very important part of the solution, along with default filtering. Will the Minister set out the Government’s new plans to improve online safety education in schools and say when these plans will commence?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, education of children and, I have to say, parents clearly is absolutely key to a successful resolution. Therefore, as part of the reforms to the national curriculum, from September this year e-safety will be taught as part of computing at all four key stages, which apply to pupils from the ages of five to 16. The internet child safety organisations have been playing a very big part in helping to formulate how the computing curriculum is arranged.

Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Bill

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness Howe of Idlicote

Tuesday 14th January 2014 Grand Committee

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for raising through her amendments the subject of enforcement and for initiating this interesting debate. Enforcement is central to the achievement of the consumer protection purposes of the Bill.

The Bill will mean that overseas operators which are required, but fail, to obtain a required Gambling Commission licence will be committing an offence. The full set of regulatory powers available to the Gambling Commission under the 2005 Act will be at its disposal to take appropriate action against illegal overseas operators. The commission also has powers under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000.

The amendments assume that the existing powers will be insufficient to enforce the Bill. This is not a view shared by the Government: we and the Gambling Commission are confident that the Bill can credibly be enforced. We are therefore not convinced that there is evidence of a problem which requires a legislative solution.

Amendment 5 would make an offence of accepting payments to or from unlicensed operators. If adopted, the amendment would have far-reaching and uncertain implications for banks and across the financial sector. Therefore, very careful consideration and consultation should occur.

Amendments 6, 7, 13 and 15 relate to financial transaction and ISP blocking. The evidence of the effectiveness and proportionality in respect of both ISP blocking and financial transaction blocking is mixed—I of course take the point made on this by the noble Lord, Lord Morrow. A European Commission report in 2012 stated:

“The implementation of payment blocking systems entails substantial costs for the payment service provider and other financial institutions”.

The Norwegian Gaming Authority’s evaluation report found that,

“the prohibition against processing payments to foreign gaming companies was less effective than intended”.

On ISP blocking, a comprehensive 2010 Ofcom report found that:

“All techniques can be circumvented to some degree”.

I raise these comments to mark the card that there are a number of issues that we need to consider and resolve. Further, however, there are wider factors which would need proper consideration and assessment, such as the impact on financial institutions and internet service providers.

I assure your Lordships that we are not, and will not be, complacent about the issue of enforcement. We will keep this under continuing review. The Gambling Commission is working with a range of organisations that have a shared interest in not knowingly facilitating illegal activity.

Amendment 14 would require a consultation on the existing use of IP and financial transaction blocking. Should Ministers consider a consultation necessary, they already have the powers to undertake that. The Gambling Commission continues to build links and share information with regulatory bodies across the world. The Gambling Commission and the FCA are working together to tackle the issue of British financial transactions with illegal operators.

The Government do not want to rule out the use of blocking tools in future; should they become appropriate, necessary and demonstrably effective, that may well be a route. Until such a time, we do not consider that it would be appropriate to seek those powers. I can assure your Lordships that we are keeping these important matters under review. However, the Government remain rightly cautious when it comes to taking reserved powers. Should we consider such powers to be appropriate, necessary and demonstrably effective, it is right, as I said, that Parliament has time to scrutinise those fully as part of the primary legislation process. However, for the reasons I have outlined, I very much hope that the noble Baroness will withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote]

My Lords, I am very grateful indeed to all noble Lords who have participated in this debate: to the noble Lord, Lord Morrow, and perhaps particularly to the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, who made some very interesting points and produced some additional evidence. However, of course I am particularly grateful to the Minister, who very kindly met some of us earlier last week to discuss these issues. He will of course realise that I am still very disappointed by what he had to say. Referring to my rather hard talk about half a Bill rather than a whole Bill, I sadly feel that if only he could have moved quite a long way in the direction we were proposing, it would have been very much a relevant and full Bill. However, I am reassured to some extent by his assurances that genuine enforcement mechanisms will be considered very carefully when rather more evidence has been gathered together on that issue. However, as we know, it is far too much carrot, and we are lacking on the stick side of the argument.

Again, I thank everyone, and I hope that we will continue to look hard at this area. I wish only that the Government could have delayed, done a bit more research and then come to the conclusion that would have satisfied us all rather more than we have been by what he has said. However, in the mean time I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her amendment. The Government are confident that the British regulatory system is a model of international best practice and that the Gambling Commission’s requirements are robust and of the highest standard. It is the commission’s job to ensure that the British regulatory system is the best that it can be, and to that extent always has its licensing conditions and technical standards under review. As the noble Baroness will be aware, the commission has just concluded its consultation into its licensing conditions and codes of practice, and we await its response. It is fair to say that the commission is internationally respected and continues to disseminate best practice, extensively engaging with overseas regulators. I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Browne of Belmont, for illustrating what is happening in Finland and Denmark.

In preparation for the new licensing regime, the commission has had a series of meetings with regulators in Gibraltar, the Isle of Man and the States of Alderney to establish ways to minimise duplication. It will be using the recently developed multijurisdictional business form for those applying for remote operating licences, which enables operators to provide and update information, once in a form, that can be provided to multiple jurisdictions without duplication.

The commission continues to explore the scope for expanded collaboration. It also has memorandums of understanding in place with several regulators, including Alderney, for the sharing of information between regulators. This will enable the commission to use any licensing, compliance and enforcement information to determine the suitability of an operator to hold, and continue to hold, a British licence. Neither the Government nor the Gambling Commission is complacent about these matters, and should either feel that such a review would be appropriate, sufficient power already exists under the 2005 Act to enable that to take place. For that reason I ask the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Browne, for his comments and of course to the Minister for what he has said and his assurance about the effectiveness of the powers that both the Government and the Gambling Commission already have.

I would like to know whether the Minister has a date for when the report that is under way will be published. That would give us a clearer idea of whether we will have further information by Report and so on. If that is not available at the moment, perhaps he could write to all of us in the Room and bring us up to date. It is quite important, because it will clearly help to inform whatever stance we take on Report. In the mean time, I thank noble Lords for having taken part and beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Internet: Regulation

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness Howe of Idlicote

Tuesday 29th October 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote (CB)]

My Lords, in a speech to the NSPCC on 22 July, the Prime Minister noted that the time had come for action to address the corrosion of childhood by online pornography. What progress has been made following the voluntary agreement by the big ISPs to administer default filters for all new customers by the end of 2013? Have the ISPs taken action?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is absolutely right. The Prime Minister, in a very significant speech, made a number of points about how we best deal with the dangers involved, particularly for children and the vulnerable. Domestic internet filtering for new and existing customers was part of that, and not only by the four large internet service providers. We want to go beyond that. We need to ensure that this is a comprehensive package so that children are as safe as possible in this very changing world and environment.

British Board of Film Classification

Debate between Lord Gardiner of Kimble and Baroness Howe of Idlicote

Wednesday 12th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote]

My Lords, I congratulate the Minister on confirming that the Government have decided to act decisively to ensure that currently exempt material which is potentially harmful to children is brought within the regulatory ambit of the BBFC. I mention this because as long ago as 2009 I moved amendments in this House seeking to change the law in this area. How swiftly does the Minister think that this change to the current regime can be implemented? I know that it has the support of the BBFC and, most importantly, of the parents of vulnerable children.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I know of the deep interest of the noble Baroness in content available online, which we need to deal with. So far as this matter is concerned, we are working carefully to ensure that the definitions dealing with violent sexual behaviour and swearing are worded so as to ensure that they identify all products that are unsuitable for younger children. The final version of the definitions will be written into the draft legislation that is to be issued for consultation soon. We want to get it right and we would very much welcome any comments. We will then need to notify the EU about the new regulations, following which there will be the secondary legislative process.