National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Lord Howard of Rising

Committee stage
Tuesday 21st January 2025 Grand Committee

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

Indeed, but let us not get into that argument. What is the biggest problem facing the country? It is that more than 9 million people who are of working age and capable of working are not working. An argument that suggests that by making it more expensive to take people on, and then add to that—I am not making a Second Reading speech —employment protection, that this will not result in job losses and therefore is not a tax on employment is, even by the standards of great economists, stretching the argument too far. The consequence of this will be, as the noble Lord acknowledged, that some people will surely lose their jobs because employing them will become too expensive.

[Lord Howard of Rising (Con)]

I just say, in relation to that and to the noble Lord’s arguments, that what he completely forgets is that manufacturing companies faced with this will simply move their production abroad. That is what he forgets.

European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 5) Bill

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Lord Howard of Rising

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 8th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

As the noble Lord will have discovered, we have a procedure which last Thursday was used on five occasions in order to bring the matter to a close.

[Lord Howard of Rising (Con)]

My Lords, it is worth reminding the Committee that the first steps to dictatorship have, through the centuries, consistently been related to abandoning procedures and precedents which are put in place in order to ensure that legislation is properly considered. I am not saying that we are going as far as the Enabling Act, but this is a very dangerous path.