Crown Estate Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Report stage
Tuesday 5th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, I rise very briefly to speak to Amendment 5 in the name of the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull. This is an entirely sensible proposal that I cannot imagine for a moment the Government would wish to resist, and which respects the autonomy of the devolution settlement. If I were a commissioner on the Crown Estate in England or the Crown Estate in Scotland, I would very much welcome this provision, and I congratulate the noble Earl on his ingenuity in tabling an amendment that would enable us to deal with this lacuna. I entirely understand why the Liberal Benches would not want to be accused of doing anything that undermined devolution. The noble Earl has found an elegant way of dealing with this, and I very much hope that the Government will support it.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend Lord Forsyth. In tabling Amendment 5, the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, has hit upon something here; it is a report that would be worth doing. When I was having discussions about the Bill between Second Reading and Committee, I spoke to people in the port sector and they were very concerned that, if there is to be investment in ports in one part of the country, that investment should be equally likely to happen in another part of the country—namely, Scotland. It is an important opportunity, and I am sure that the Minister will respond in a positive fashion, as far as he can.

Turning to government Amendment 3, I am grateful to the Minister, who listened to concerns from all sides of the House about ensuring that sufficient information is forthcoming about the relationship between Crown Estate and Great British Energy. I am somewhat disappointed that we never saw the partnership document. I still suspect that that is because it does not exist, so I am not entirely sure what the partnership is; but let us put that to one side. I am looking forward to seeing information come through on the results of this partnership as we go forward.

I note what the noble Earl, Lord Russell, said about the intention behind his Amendment 8. Any noble Lord who has looked at the Crown Estate annual report will know that it is already quite detailed, and I appreciate that a lot of work has been put into sharing information about the organisation with stakeholders. I suspect that his amendment is too detailed to be wholly useful, but I am sure that he has picked out various elements that the Crown Estate will no doubt take note of and include in future reporting.

HMRC Self-assessment Helpline

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Tuesday 26th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I do not fully recognise the picture that the noble Baroness paints. Over the course of this Parliament, the amount of funding provided to HMRC has increased from £4.3 billion in 2019-20 to £5.2 billion in 2024-25, and the overall customer satisfaction across phone, web chat and online is 79.2% versus a target of 80%. However, I recognise that there are certain elements within the HMRC offer where taxpayers need to get a better service. That includes answering correspondence for some of the more complex and hard-to-reach people: the vulnerable and the digitally excluded. That is exactly why, quite frankly, we need to move resources from taxpayers who can and should use online and ensure that those resources can be targeted at those areas where customer service is not as good as it should be. That is what we intend to do.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend accept that the large reduction in the number of people in this country who are self-employed is a direct consequence of the Government’s introduction of IR35 legislation, which has led to huge confusion among the self-employed? Many people are giving up—just ask any taxi driver in London. Does she really think that the Inland Revenue, or HMRC as it is now, can provide a proper service with so many of its people working from home?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Obviously, it is up to the individual to ensure that they pay the right tax at the right time. HMRC intends to make that as easy as possible, but for some more complex situations it is right that individuals get tax advice. People working for HMRC can work from home two days a week. They use the same systems as they do in the office, and they are held to the same standard that they would experience when they are in the office.

Self-employment: A1 Forms

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Monday 12th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Beatles split up the year I was born so I do not have as long a memory as the noble Lord. However, the Government are very focused on developing our emerging artists and ensuring that they can get to new international markets, whether that be in the EU or beyond. The music export growth scheme has been tripled and will now spend £3.2 million over the next two years to support these emerging artists. When it comes to music, we are talking about not just the EU but the entire world.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister agree that this is not a problem of Brexit but a problem of EU members not being co-operative?

HMRC: Tax Returns

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Wednesday 10th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, further to my noble friend’s first Answer, has she actually tried ringing the HMRC herself, and what was the outcome?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend will be very pleased to know that I phoned HMRC on Monday and eventually managed to speak to a person. I did not tell them who I was, and I do not have very complex tax affairs. It was something very simple, but it could be done only by a real person.

Financial Stability: Private Equity Firms

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Wednesday 13th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord mentions a situation I am not aware of, but I will say that all owners of UK companies must abide by the Companies Act and their obligations therein.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, has my noble friend been following the speeches and articles written by the noble Lord, Lord King, the former Governor of the Bank of England, in which he suggests that it is so important for the Bank to concentrate on inflation and the price mechanism that it does not make sense to add to those responsibilities a green agenda, which will distract it and draw it into political activity?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I have not been following those interventions from the former governor, the noble Lord, Lord King, but I shall certainly look at them.

HS2 Ltd: Costs

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Wednesday 25th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

As I said in my opening Answer, it is clear that people wish to make allegations against HS2 Ltd, and we would absolutely encourage them to come forward with evidence. There are a number of mechanisms by which that evidence can be reviewed and further action taken if needed.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that there have been two reports by the Economic Affairs Committee of this House on HS2—one four years ago and another four years before that? The first report suggested to the Government that it might be more sensible and represent more value for money if the expenditure was concentrated on east-west infra- structure in the north of England, and pointed to the concern about the viability of the business case. The second report—I was chairman and should declare that interest—pointed out that costs were out of control, and that if this was not dealt with it would result in the Government having to cancel the northern routes altogether and be left with a white elephant. Is the lesson here not that the Government should pay more attention to Select Committees of this House?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government always pay attention to Select Committees of this House. I well remember when my noble friend and I debated that report—indeed, many other noble Lords took part in that debate. That is just one of the many mechanisms that Parliament has, and that wider society has, for holding the Government and HS2 to account.

Great British Railways

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Wednesday 28th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I do not want to be the one to remind the noble Lord that there are two Houses in Parliament. Your Lordships’ House actually has quite a lot of legislation going through.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that there would be more parliamentary time if the Liberals did not table so many amendments, and speak at length on them, at late stages of Bills?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Yes, I do.

Aviation: Cost of Travel

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Wednesday 7th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The reality is that this is a competitive market and fares are a commercial decision by the airlines. I have already noted that provision has recovered to where it was before. It is the case that peak-time fares will be expensive, but I believe that there are significantly cheaper fares available than the one he quoted.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, this is not just a problem across the Irish Sea; it is also a problem when going to Scotland. I have just checked what the fare will be to travel from London City Airport to Edinburgh tomorrow evening one way: it is £425.46. That is ridiculous. It is not a competitive market; we do not have enough competition, which is why people can charge these exorbitant fares.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

We have one of the most liberal aviation markets in Europe and, indeed, in the world. It is the case that, at peak times, including travelling to Scotland in the evening, flights may well be very expensive, but people who can be flexible with their time will be able to find cheaper alternatives.

Vehicles: Purchase Price and Running Costs

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Monday 24th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as an owner of an electric Mini and a diesel car. The electric Mini is one of the best cars I have ever had. It costs nothing to run because I charge it from sunlight from my solar panels. What on earth are the Government doing by allowing this icon of British industry to be changed and moved to China?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Of course, a lot of the design and innovation that went into the Mini did come from the UK, but the Government are clearly not going to get involved in some decisions by private companies as to where they do their manufacturing. However, we can provide support to companies to make sure that they do manufacture in the UK and that is why we have the automotive transformation fund.

HS2: Speed Restrictions

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Wednesday 13th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Not at all. Work is of course well under way within the department as to how best to use the £100 million that we have set out to look at the options on the route to Leeds and to finally make some progress on a mass transit system for Leeds. However, one of the key things about the Government’s decision for our plans for high-speed rail in the future is to make sure that we get as close to city centres as possible. In the older plans, it was far too often the case that the train never got anywhere close to the city centre but now places such as Derby and Nottingham will benefit.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, the report of the Economic Affairs Committee of this House on HS2 predicted that the net result would be that it would run over budget and we would lose the necessary expenditure for east-west improvement of rail services in the north, which has come to pass. Given that the business case was based on the premise that there would be a need for more business travel and given that, as the Civil Service has shown, many people are now working from home, should the business case now be reviewed?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I reassure my noble friend that if there are changes to the budget or to the schedule, that will be put before Parliament in the six-monthly review. I slightly take issue about there being a lack of east-west investment from the Government. The £96 billion that we are investing in the integrated rail plan is a significant amount for east-west connectivity.

Airports: Delays

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Thursday 30th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

That is exactly what the Government have said to the aviation sector. The Government and the CAA wrote to the sector, both the airports and airlines, to set out the expectations for both over the summer period. The first of those is that summer schedules must be reviewed to make sure that they are deliverable. To that end, the Government are changing the regulations with regard to slots, to introduce a slot amnesty for a part of the summer.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, is it not time that the Government took some action on behalf of the airline passengers? If we take the levelling-up strategy, for example, how can it be right that British Airways charges more than £500 for an economy return fare from Glasgow or Edinburgh if it is booked a week in advance? The travelling public are treated very badly by the airlines. In the past, my noble friend has rejected Written Questions from me suggesting that the Government should intervene, which I am sympathetic to, but this is just simply out of hand. The public are being taken for fools.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I maintain my position on intervening in the price of flights, but we are absolutely intervening in terms of the standards of care that passengers receive from the aviation sector. Again, as I mentioned, in the letter that we have recently written to the industry, one thing that we made very clear was that passengers must be informed promptly of their consumer rights. Obviously, passengers should take those up with the airline itself and then with the CAA if it is not acceptably resolved with the airline.

Global Traffic Scorecard: London

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Wednesday 5th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government are very clear that the use of e-scooters outside trial areas on public property is illegal. It can lead to a fine of up to £300, six points on a driving licence and the scooter can be impounded.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, given that inflation is running at very high levels as measured by CPI, but even higher levels as measured by RPI, being some 7%, can the Minister assure us that the benchmark for setting increases in rail fares will be CPI and not RPI?

HS2: Cost

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Wednesday 24th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, given that the previous chairman of HS2 said in his evidence to the Economic Affairs Committee inquiry that no one knew what the costs of HS2 would be, and that his successor has now said that there will be a considerable increase in the cost, can my noble friend guarantee that, should the section from London to Birmingham overrun its costs, the proposals for the north of England will remain ring-fenced and that the additional routes in the north will not be cancelled because of the overrun on stage 1?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

As I have already tried to explain, the costs are still under review and being finalised. I am certainly not able to give the assurance that my noble friend is after as to the routes in the north because complex rail developments such as these are interrelated and the true benefits—the true value for money for the taxpayer—is achieved only when they are built as one system.

Railways: Newcastle and Edinburgh

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Monday 24th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

We do not know what the Williams review is going to say on that or indeed any other point, but it will be a root-and-branch review of the entire system so that we can create a railway system fit for the 21st century and build up a blueprint of how our future on the railway will look. The review will look at reforms to the structure of the industry as well as to the commercial model within which it operates. Some 600 responses have been made to the call for evidence, so noble Lords will understand that it will take quite a while to go through them all. As regards the new services on the east coast main line, that was an open process conducted between 2014 and 2015. The operator has been granted track access rights from 2021 to operate those services.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend has answered a series of Written Questions from me about services from Edinburgh to London by air. Does she think it is reasonable for British Airways to charge economy-class fares of more than £600 for a return journey to Edinburgh on planes that are absolutely full—so full, in fact, that the Convenor was not able to get here today?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I thank my noble friend for his Questions on this issue. As I have said to him previously, air travel in this country is subject to a competitive market and certain services will necessarily cost more than others. Where there is not a sufficient service, the Government will step in and provide support, but that is obviously not the case on the Edinburgh route.

Brexit: European Union’s No-deal Continuity Arrangements

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Thursday 13th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

Unfortunately, I do not recall the Government’s response to the noble Lord of 6 February. Discussions of tariffs are slightly beyond the original scope of the Question, but we expect the EU’s most favoured nation tariff regime to apply to the UK if the UK leaves the EU without a deal. Noble Lords are also aware that this will result in the introduction of tariffs on 60% of current UK exports to the EU.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, given that all the leading contenders for the leadership of the Conservative Party have made clear that it is important the European Union understands that we are prepared to leave without a deal if we cannot get a sensible agreement, would it not be sensible for the Government to publish, for each department, what plans are in place, how they need to operate and what future additions will be required?

Electric Vehicles: Charging Points

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Tuesday 7th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I thank the noble Baroness for a number of questions there. I disagree with her that growth is not rapid. We are the second-largest market for electric vehicles in Europe. I believe that the rollout to date has been very successful. For example, within the last 30 days 1,000 charge points have been introduced. The noble Baroness spoke about local authorities and we support the work they are doing. There is no more funding available but we are encouraging the private sector to step up and, with £400 million in the charging infrastructure investment fund, we believe that it will.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, would it not be a good idea for Parliament to give an example to the rest of the country? We have 487 parking spaces between this House and the other place, and I am told there are two charging points in the House of Commons and three more promised for Royal Court. How can we expect the country to take us seriously if we cannot put our own house in order?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I completely agree with my noble friend that we need more charging points within the House. I certainly used to drive but I do so no longer. I use public transport and I encourage all noble Lords to do the same.

Brexit: No-deal Ferry Contracts

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Wednesday 1st May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I would like to focus on the first of those questions: what exactly was the benefit to the taxpayer? The benefit was that the taxpayer had an insurance policy. Like many organisations, the Government are able to take out insurance policies, and these contracts were precisely that. The benefit to the taxpayer is that the Government were able to ensure the continued movement of absolutely critical goods—what we call “class 1 goods”—into this country in the event of no deal. I am fairly sure that the noble Lord would have been the first to criticise the Government had these goods not got through.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

Following my noble friend’s analogy, can she explain why we have given up the insurance policy before we have the certainty of knowing that we will not have no deal? Can she also tell us what the total cost to the taxpayer has been of our failure to leave on 29 March?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

The noble Lord is right that this particular insurance policy falls away because these were six-month contracts, and now that we have the extension to 31 October the contracts are obviously not needed. These contracts are very visible, but they are actually an extremely small proportion of our no-deal planning. A total of £4 billion has been put in place as an insurance package to make sure that, in the event of no deal, which remains the legal default, we will be able to protect our citizens.

Disposable Cups Ban

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Monday 21st May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, it is right that the Government and indeed Parliament should lead by example. Defra has already removed all single-use plastic cups from the department and new catering services have no single-use plastics at all. I know that the FCO is following suit. Moreover, we can use the greening government commitments to deliver on and report progress across central government. I am sure that noble Lords will be pleased to see that the Parliamentary Estate is also committed to removing all avoidable single-use plastics.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend confirm that the Government’s policy on the throw-away culture does not extend to neckties?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, I think that we may need to look at our customs in the Chamber.

Unpaid Internships

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Monday 18th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, as I have already mentioned, during the time that this legislation has been in place there have been 14 prosecutions and, as I said, those were for the most pernicious and serious cases. We tend to choose the civil route so that people can get their funding much quicker. However, there is one other way in which we can ensure that employers step up to the plate and stop exploiting workers: only last week we named and shamed an additional 260 companies across the country that are not doing right by their workers. I do not know whether noble Lords have had a chance to look through their local media, but I have recently, and it is interesting to note how often local media pick up these stories and ensure that people in their local communities understand what their local companies are doing.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, can the Minister explain to me the difference between an internship and work experience? Will she go out of her way to praise those employers who give young people the opportunity to have work experience, which is so important in order to gain employment in the current market?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My noble friend gets to the heart of the matter because this is about social mobility. We have to ensure that placements are available; for example, people who are on work experience placements as part of a university degree are not liable to the minimum wage in those circumstances because those places would not exist if that requirement were not needed. We must pay tribute to all companies that take young people and give them the confidence to proceed in their career as they want to do.