Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Merron

2nd reading
Friday 19th September 2025 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Baroness Merron) (Lab)]

My Lords, I start by thanking all noble Lords for an extensive, passionate and insightful debate. As noble Lords have observed throughout this debate, its quality and its conduct have been exemplary, and I believe that that has allowed the expression of differing and deeply held views. I thank my noble and learned friend Lord Falconer for his work in introducing this Bill to the House, and I know that many noble Lords are waiting to hear from him as the sponsor.

We have all heard the debates across the country, in which campaigners on both sides have made their case with conviction and care. We have also heard the debates in the other place, and we know the previous consideration that this House has given to the topic of assisted dying. Now it is our turn to scrutinise this legislation.

I turn first to the important issue of the role of the Government, which relates in some part to the Motion in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, and the amendment to it from the noble Lord, Lord Carlile. The Government are neutral on the principle of assisted dying. It is a matter of conscience. Whether the Bill becomes law is a decision for Parliament, and my role, alongside that of my noble friend Lady Levitt, is to help ensure that, if this legislation is passed, it is legally and technically effective and workable. So, as with any legislation, if Parliament chooses to pass the Bill, the Government will be responsible for its implementation.

The noble Lord’s Motion refers to time being made available for consideration of amending stages. Scheduling is of course a matter for my noble friend the Government Chief Whip, who will indeed keep this under review. The Government have a duty of care to the statute book and, as such, my officials and those in the Ministry of Justice have worked with my noble and learned friend Lord Falconer and the Commons sponsor Kim Leadbeater MP to offer drafting support and workability advice. This will continue throughout the passage of the Bill and is and has been usual practice.

Turning to the Motions in the name of my noble friend Lady Berger—

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

Can the Minister explain why, despite requests from the sponsors of the Bill, and despite the precedent which has been taken with other Bills which were Private Members’ Bills but matters of conscience, such as capital punishment and abortion, the Government are not prepared to provide time so that this House can ensure that it is properly scrutinised and considered?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I can only repeat the point I made that the Government Chief Whip will listen to the will of Parliament and will review as necessary.

The Motion and the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lady Berger refer to a Select Committee reporting to the House ahead of Committee of the Whole House commencing. The Select Committee should report by Friday 7 November. The outcome of these Motions and any others are indeed a matter for this House to decide on.

To the points that noble Lords have raised over whether this matter should have been for a Private Member’s Bill or a government Bill, I remind us all that, on matters of societal change, the Private Member’s Bill, with government neutrality, has long been used as the right vehicle to handle matters of sensitivity and importance such as this one. On this point of neutrality, I hope that noble Lords will understand my role and why it is not appropriate or possible for me as the Government Minister responding to respond to every point raised during the debate.

I thank the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee and the Constitution Committee for their scrutiny of the Bill. As many noble Lords have highlighted, their recommendations will be important in the consideration. The content of this Bill and any delegated powers are a matter for the sponsor and Parliament. I am grateful to both committees because their recommendations will inform the scrutiny of your Lordships’ House. Noble Lords heard my noble and learned friend Lord Falconer’s opening remarks. He has already considered those reports and will continue to do so.

Many noble Lords have spoken about the importance of high-quality palliative care for all those who need it. I want to be clear that irrespective of any legislation on assisted dying, everyone must be provided with high-quality compassionate care through to the end of their life. While the majority of palliative and end-of-life care is provided by the NHS, we recognise the vital role played by the voluntary sector in supporting people at the end of their life. That is why we are providing the hospice sector with £100 million of capital funding for eligible adult and children’s hospices, to ensure that the best physical environment for care is available.

We recognise that more could be done to support people who need palliative and end-of-life care, as a number of noble Lords said. We are looking at how to improve the access, quality and sustainability of all-age palliative and end-of-life care, in line with the recently published 10-year health plan, and to make the shift from hospital to community, including making that care part of the work of neighbourhood health teams.

I thank noble Lords once again for their engagement, care and thoughtfulness during this debate. As I have said, the Government remain neutral on whether the Bill becomes law. Should Parliament pass this legislation, I can say to your Lordships’ House that it will be our responsibility to ensure that it can be implemented safely and effectively.

Social Care Reform

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Merron

Thursday 22nd May 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

My noble friend makes very strong points, which I absolutely concur with. This is an issue that needs to be able to stand the test of time and changes, whether they be in leadership or of Government. That is why we are taking the approach that we are. My noble friend will have seen the terms of reference that have been published. They are deliberately broad because we are tasking the noble Baroness, Lady Casey, to lead the work fully independently, which is particularly important in seeking cross-party consensus. Indeed, the noble Baroness’s review is very much about having the conversations cross-party and seeking to bring people together across parties and across sectors and the many individuals who have an interest in this.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, is not the truth of the matter that there is a consensus between the parties? The Economic Affairs Committee of this House published a report some five years ago. There was unanimity across the House. There has since been another report. This setting up of commissions and so on is just to appease the Treasury, which refuses to provide the money that is needed for social care and is the key to cutting waiting lists and moving forward in the health service. Should not the Government just have the courage to commit to the resource that is necessary instead of kicking this into the long grass for another three years while elderly people and young people suffer from inadequate services and clog up beds in the health service?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I understand the noble Lord’s impatience—I am sure we share it—and I hear what he says, but I have to remind your Lordships’ House that the previous Government did not commit funding to their plans, and I am glad the noble Lord agreed with that. I do not accept the characterisation of this. As my noble friend Lady Pitkeathley said, it has to stand the test of time. We are not waiting to take action; we have already put a number of pieces of work in place to lay the groundwork, including additional funding for social care authorities, increasing the carer’s allowance weekly earnings limit and an extra £172 million for home adaptations. We are not just waiting for this report. By the way, I do not recognise the three-year characterisation because the first phase will report in 2026 and then there will be a further report back by 2028. I feel this is the right way forward.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

Eight minus five is three.

Hospice Funding

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Merron

Monday 6th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I understand the point the noble Baroness is making, because planning ahead and certainty are key. I can confirm that my ministerial colleague, Minister Kinnock, will soon meet all major stakeholders to discuss long-term sustainability of funding. We are very aware of the difficulties that have been caused thus far and seeking a way forward.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, I commend to the Minister a scheme that I introduced when I was Secretary of State for Scotland, at the suggestion of the broadcaster Martyn Lewis, who wrote a book on the hospice movement in tribute to Dame Cicely Saunders. That scheme introduced pound-for-pound funding: every pound raised was matched by the Government, which had the effect of greatly increasing funding and the incentive for people to support the hospice movement. Will she consider introducing such a scheme, which, alas, did not survive the introduction of the Scottish Parliament?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

The noble Lord makes a very interesting point. Of course, the introduction of gift aid supported charitable funding, including to hospices, and I know was very warmly welcomed. These are all important ways of looking at funding and we will consider the best way forward, but I note from discussions with the hospice movement that hospices very much value their autonomy in terms of funding; the more linked it is to government funding, the less autonomy they have. We want dignified and appropriate care for patients and families, and to find the best way to deliver that.

Northern Ireland Dentists: Amalgam Fillings

Debate between Lord Forsyth of Drumlean and Baroness Merron

Monday 22nd July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

Yes, I can confirm that amalgam is safe. The reason for this phase-down of the use of mercury, which is in amalgam fillings, is related to the environment. When mercury is released into the environment—for example, through emissions from crematoria—it can get into the food chain, where it accumulates mainly in fish such as shark and tuna. That can affect those who have a fish-rich diet, in countries such as Greenland, Brazil, Japan and China. However, there is no evidence whatsoever that amalgam is unsafe, and it is with that in mind that we have sought this arrangement for Northern Ireland.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

Further to the noble Lord’s rather ungracious question, can the Minister confirm that if we had not left the EU, it would not have been possible to continue with the use of amalgam?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I am sure that there are many opinions in your Lordships’ House about what would have happened if we had not left the EU, and I think it is probably appropriate that I leave it there.