2030 Emissions Reduction Target: Heating

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Tuesday 5th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes a valid point. Heat networks are probably more appropriate for most flats—for instance, you could have one heat pump in the basement that would heat all the flats—but for some cases she is right.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, what is the Government’s estimate of the cost of meeting this target and who will pay for it?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

That depends on what target the noble Lord is referring to. There are a number of different targets but a substantial amount of government funding is going into this—some £450 million for the boiler upgrade scheme and £6.6 billion to decarbonise heating generally.

Electricity and Gas (Energy Company Obligation) Order 2023

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Callanan)]

My Lords, I beg to move the Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, can I ask the Minister briefly about this order? As I understand it, the order is about requiring the providers of energy services to take measures to reduce people’s energy bills, which is very welcome at a time when there is a cost of living crisis. Can the Minister confirm whether the reports in today’s Daily Telegraph that the Government are planning to reintroduce the green levy on people’s electricity bills are correct? If so, is it wise to do so at this time?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend is being slightly mischievous on this. The question he asks is not in any way related to the statutory instrument debated last week, but I would be happy to have a separate conversation with him about it.

SMEs: Net-zero Targets

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Wednesday 7th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Of course it will vary depending on the type of business. Many businesses are already working in green areas. A lot of them are involved in retrofitting. On the other hand, some of them are very energy intensive. There are different solutions for different businesses.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, given that their competitors in Germany and elsewhere are extending the deadline for ending the production of motor cars with internal combustion engines, are we not in danger of making our large car manufacturers into small and medium-sized enterprises as they are being forced to reduce production, with great consequences for employment and competitiveness?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I normally agree with my noble friend, but I do not on this solitary occasion: I think he is wrong. Other major economies, including the EU, are essentially doing a similar job—they have made a couple of small exceptions to the ban with things such as novel fuels. Providing certainty for industry and business is the direction they need to go in. Supporting them in the appropriate areas, ensuring that the right gigafactories are completed in the UK, is the way to go, in my view.

Climate Change: Net Zero Strategy

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Of course, we will continue to keep these matters under review. I am not going to predict what might happen to the Bill in the House of Commons, but we will certainly reflect on what the House voted for.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend resist the blandishments from the Green Party about planning and organisation, given the shambles it has created in Scotland for the coalition there on the bottle return scheme?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Of course, I accept my noble friend’s advice about Green policies. I pointed out the example of Germany. The Green Party’s opposition to an electric railway line—HS2—is another example of a hypocritical policy, but there are many others that we could choose from.

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 2nd March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

And not for the first time. As the noble Baroness was talking about the dashboard, I could not help but just carry the analogy a little further. How much is hidden in the glove compartment?

This has been a very interesting debate. It was extremely well introduced by the noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys. What I want, above all, is a period of stability for our country. I want to feel that the United Kingdom is more united after these turbulent years than it has been of late. I took great encouragement from that happy photograph of the Prime Minister with the President of the European Union on Monday. I want to feel that we really are beginning to build a proper relationship with our former partners, but our remaining friends and allies. If anything underlines the need for that, it is one word: Ukraine.

I do not know, any more than any of us do, precisely what we are dealing with. The noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, made that plain in her speech with regard to the devolved Governments. I happened to be one of those who fought quite strongly against devolution, because I thought it would threaten the integrity of the United Kingdom.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

You were right.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My noble friend interjects that I was right. Well, I may have been right, but I lost. We all lost. The fact is that we have devolved Administrations. Two of them are active and I devoutly hope and pray that the third will be active again very soon. It is very important that we make this system work. All we are asking for is for my noble friend Lord Callanan to adopt as his motto “festina lente”—make haste slowly—and make real progress as one does so.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, made a very wise speech. He laid out just the sort of complexities that we face. I just hope that this Bill, which I believe to be unnecessary in its present form, and premature, can be paused. I hope it can go into the same compartment that the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill has now gone into. That is what I hope for. I believe passionately—the amendment moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, underlines this—that this is going to do harm to our United Kingdom and to our relations with our European friends and former partners. Neither of those things is in the interest of our country or is going to contribute to a stable future for it.

Heat and Buildings Strategy: Gas Boilers

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Tuesday 28th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness will be aware that these are matters for the Chancellor. As a Minister, I have long observed not getting into predicting taxation policy. I will certainly pass her suggestions on to the Chancellor.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, further to the questions from the right reverend Prelate and my noble friend Lord Naseby, I was involved in raising funds to refurbish our rectory. The church insisted on putting in a heat pump; because of the nature of the property, it cost nearly £40,000 just to insulate it in order to make the heat pump work efficiently. Heat pumps are not suitable for all buildings, which is why it is essential that we look for an alternative.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I partly agree with my noble friend. It is a good thing that the rectory was insulated anyway, whatever kind of heating was installed in it. Heat pumps obviously work best in well-insulated properties, but you can now get high-temperature heat pumps that work in all scenarios. I agree with my noble friend that, as I said earlier, there is a multiplicity of property types and different technologies will work in different properties.