Office for Budget Responsibility
Debate between Lord Falconer of Thoroton and Lord Sassoon
Lord Sassoon
I am grateful to my noble friend Lady Noakes for her remarks and I echo her congratulations to Sir Alan Budd, the OBR and the Treasury officials who have been moved across into the OBR, as what they have produced in such a short time is a remarkable achievement. I agree that the report makes a depressing read in that it exposes how threadbare the inheritance from the previous Government was. On the other hand, it makes a stimulating and positive read, in the sense that we can use it as a basis on which to construct credible Budgets from now on. I also agree that it is important to put the OBR on to a permanent footing. Legislation will be brought forward as was set out in the Queen’s Speech.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton
I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Sassoon, for not being here when he made his Statement. I was trying to get here but unfortunately I was blocked by the Armada in the Royal Gallery and had to go round another way. I thank him for repeating in this House the Statement made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
I am struck by the harshness of the Minister’s attacks on the previous Government and by the fact that he says that what the Office for Budget Responsibility has done is transparent. The difficulty is that what it has done has been done incredibly quickly and, as the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, pointed out, has inevitably been based on assumptions that are difficult to make. The most significant thing is the political interference. I was amazed when the Minister said that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had spoken to Sir Alan Budd on 28 May, on 3 June and again on 9 June. In order to deliver on transparency, will the noble Lord, Lord Sassoon, tell us what was said in those conversations? If not, there will be doubt about the transparency.
Lord Sassoon
My Lords, first, I am delighted that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, was not defeated by the Armada and managed to come through triumphantly, although it sounds as though it was a close-run thing. What I said and what I will repeat is that the Chancellor saw an initial view of the forecasts on Friday 28 May and saw a further update on Thursday 3 June. The OBR then shared its report with him on Wednesday 9 June. I am completely at a loss to know why sharing numbers and the final report should in any way impinge on the office’s independence—
Lord Falconer of Thoroton
Perhaps I might explain and give the noble Lord an opportunity to comment. This is the reason why the rule was made that numbers were not to be shared with Ministers except during the few days before. I am sorry that I did not make that clear.
Lord Sassoon
I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for the clarification, but to compare the process around the formulation of a report by the OBR with the release of numbers by the ONS is to compare chalk and cheese.