ISIL in Syria

Lord Evans of Rainow Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Government’s—[Hon. Members: “Answer!”] Mr Speaker, if I could move on with my speech, I would be most grateful. The Government’s proposal for military action in Syria is not backed by clear and unambiguous authorisation by the United Nations. It does not meet the seven tests set down by the Foreign Affairs Committee, and it does not fulfil three of the four conditions laid down in my own party conference resolution of a couple of months ago.

In the past week, voice has been given to the growing opposition to the Government’s bombing plans—across the country, in Parliament, outside in the media, and indeed in my own party. I believe that this is in consideration of all the wars that we have been involved in over the last 14 years. These matters were debated a great deal during my campaign to be elected leader of the Labour party, and many people think very deeply about these matters. In the light of that record of western military interventions, these matters have to be analysed. British bombing in Syria risks yet more of what President Obama, in a very thoughtful moment, called the “unintended consequences” of the war in Iraq, which he himself opposed at the time. The spectre of Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya looms over this debate.

[Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Jeremy Corbyn]

No, I will not give way; I will carry on with my speech. To oppose another war and intervention is not pacifism; it is hard-headed common sense. That is what we should be thinking about today in the House. To resist ISIL’s determination to draw the western powers back into the heart of the middle east is not to turn our backs on allies; it is to refuse to play into the hands of ISIL as I suspect some of its members want us to. Is it wrong for us here in Westminster to see a problem, pass a motion, and drop bombs, pretending we are doing something to solve it? That is what we did in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. Has terrorism increased or decreased as a result of all that? The Prime Minister said he was looking to build a consensus around the military action he wants to take. I do not believe he has achieved anything of the kind. He has failed, in my view, to make the case for another bombing campaign.

--- Later in debate ---

[Keir Starmer (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)]

Following the horrifying attacks in Sousse, in Ankara, over Sinai, in Beirut, and most recently in Paris, no one should be in any doubt about the capability and intention of Daesh to carry out further acts of terrorism across the globe. There has to be a strong international response, and the UK should be part of that. Enough has been said about comments the Prime Minister may have made last night. For my part, having prosecuted some of the most serious terrorist plots in this country and worked with a number of members of the Prime Minister’s Front Bench to thwart terrorism, I hope the House is clear about where my sympathies are on this matter.

The question is whether there is a lawful, coherent and compelling case for airstrikes. So far as lawful is concerned, much has been said about UN resolution 2249. In and of itself, it does not authorise force, but I accept it implies a reference to self-defence, which would be a lawful basis for action that has been taken and that may be taken in future.

For me, the question is whether, if lawful, the action is none the less compelling and coherent. The argument that there is no logic in taking military action in Iraq but not in Syria is seductive and powerful, but in the end unconvincing. The situation in Syria is very different from the situation in Iraq. The civil war has a different dynamic, the opposition forces are differently constituted and Russia is of course more heavily involved in support of the Assad Government.

That does not mean that there should be no response in Syria, and there is much in the Prime Minister’s motion—in relation to the Vienna process, the talks for a transition to an inclusive Syria and humanitarian suffering—with which I would agree, but whether there should be airstrikes is another matter. I am not against airstrikes per se, and I accept that it is difficult to see how territory can be taken from Daesh without them. In my view, however, airstrikes without an effective ground force are unlikely to make any meaningful contribution to defeating Daesh, and there is no effective ground force.

[Graham Evans]

Will the hon. and learned Gentleman give way?

[Keir Starmer]

I will not give way, because lots of people have been waiting to speak.

The Prime Minister’s reliance on what he calls “70,000 Syrian opposition fighters” on the ground is wholly unrealistic. They are a disparate group of individuals with varying motivations and capabilities. By definition, they are oppositional, and it is hard to see how we could honour and protect them without being drawn into conflict with Russia. On that basis, I will vote against the motion tonight. I will, however, say this: I respect Members from both sides of the House who hold a different view, and if the Prime Minister’s motion is passed, I will support our forces in action.