Transparency of the Parole Board and Victim Support

Lord Elystan-Morgan Excerpts

Tuesday 9th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I hear what the noble Lord is saying, but if we are to make progress—and swiftly, which is what we are required to do in these circumstances —we have to ensure that the review process is focused on the matters immediately at issue. To broaden it in the way suggested would, I fear, take us into the swamp lands and result in no meaningful change in the foreseeable future, particularly on the issue of transparency. While I understand and hear the desire for as wide a review as possible, let us bear in mind the need to ensure a review process that leads to legislative change within a realistic and—for victims—an acceptable timeframe.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister tell the House whether a full, preliminary review at the time Worboys pleaded was held by a learned judge? Normally such a mechanism enables many of the issues arising in this case to be ironed out at that stage.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to the noble Lord, but I am not sure that that could address the sorts of issues that have arisen here as a result of the present process. We are looking at the situation of Worboys 10 years after his initial incarceration and the circumstances in which he has sought to persuade the Parole Board that he can be released, without danger to the public and against the background of a risk management plan submitted to the Parole Board by the National Probation Service itself. I do not believe that that could be brought forward.

Northern Ireland (Ministerial Appointments and Regional Rates) Bill

Lord Elystan-Morgan Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 26th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alderdice (LD)]

My Lords, I too identify myself with the comments made by my noble friend Lady Suttie about the horrible events in north Belfast and, indeed, about the Bill itself. At this late stage of the Parliament, and at this late stage of a debate on this emergency legislation, it would be quite inappropriate for me to make a lengthy speech or one that simply repeated things that had already been said in the debate. However, there are one or two things that are worth saying.

No one ever thought that the peace process would be a sprint. Some realised it would be a marathon; others realised it would be a steeplechase with plenty of hurdles. The truth is that in many ways it is a relay race, with Governments passing the baton from one to the next. This generation of Northern Ireland politicians has dropped the baton. A previous generation learned, through painful experience of violence, trouble and many political talks, that there had to be some better way of organising things for ourselves in Northern Ireland. Of the many lessons we learned, the crucial one was that addressing our problem was about addressing disturbed relationships between our communities. The noble Lord, Lord Dunlop, mentioned the three-stranded process. It was three-stranded because we were dealing with three sets of relationships.

What has been forgotten by the current generation of politicians is that it is all about relationships. As I listen to what has been going on prior to and during the early days of this election campaign, I do not hear people speaking of others as though they recognise that they must have a working relationship with them. To some extent, the noble Lord, Lord Morrow, if not others, demonstrated to the House something of the kind of problem that one might find. If we were to have members of the nationalist community or republicans in this Chamber—which we do not—the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, and others would not have to wonder what they were talking about over such long periods. They would find that the disagreements have no difficulty finding momentum and continuing for many days, weeks and, indeed, years. Without establishing some kind of better working relationship with each other, there is little point in saying that we must have devolution, we must have an Executive and we must get on with working together when there is no sign of that being done.

That brings me to the proposition laid out by the noble Lord, Lord Trimble. On the last occasion on which we debated the issues, he and I both indicated that some creativity of thinking was important, and he has taken that forward. I support what he said about creative thinking and the specific measure that he suggested: between now and the end of June, we hope that there will be agreement, but we will not be hanging on by our fingernails waiting for it. On the part of the officials of the noble Lord, Lord Dunlop, serious work needs to be done on the option of the Northern Ireland Assembly operating much as the Welsh Assembly did during its first years: taking responsibility, not only because it is difficult to form an Executive but because in local councils in Northern Ireland, for many years, Sinn Fein, unionists, Alliance and others have been working effectively as corporate bodies and making decisions. Sometimes it takes a long time to get the decision, and the decisions are not necessarily always the best, but they are better than no decision and they are better than people in Northern Ireland not being directly represented by the Assembly. I give way to the noble Lord.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

I am most grateful to the noble Lord and, like everyone here, I appreciate that he is casting around, as is the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, for any solution to this most difficult situation, but the Welsh Assembly is a very limited parallel in this case. Why? Because what were transferred were not legislative rights but executive functions. Those functions were transferred from Ministers of the Crown here in Westminster to an elected Assembly in Cardiff. The legislative transfers were very limited. Therefore, it is not a precedent for Northern Ireland, unless one takes the view that it is possible to have a legislature dealing without an Executive. That may be possible.

[Lord Alderdice]

I thank the noble Lord. I have to say that I am pretty familiar with the fact that it was different because, when the Presiding Officers of the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament were appointed, all three Presiding Officers were, as is well known in your Lordships’ House, Members of your Lordships’ House. We were also all sons of the Presbyterian manse, as it happened. We spent a lot of time talking to each other about these issues, and there were many things that we did not agree to do.

For example, I suspect that my noble friends on the Benches opposite would appreciate the fact that when we were discussing the question of language in the Northern Ireland Assembly, the people in Dublin suggested that we should not go as far on the Irish language as the Welsh went on the Welsh language. The noble Lord is absolutely right to point out that the Assemblies are not identical, but it would be a mistake to think that one is merely casting around for any possibility.

We have to make changes to the way the Assembly is run, but we also have to ensure that we do not wipe out a generation of Northern Ireland politicians who will have to find some way to build relationships. They will not do that if there is no elected Chamber in which to meet and no elected responsibilities for them to take. They will go back to their own communities, snipe at each other and not try to build a relationship. It is crucial that there are ways for that to be done at the level of the Northern Ireland Assembly, not just at the level of local government.

It is also crucial that we find ways in which elected representatives at a senior level can be involved in the negotiations on Brexit, as has already been said. That requires a Northern Ireland Assembly, but it requires one that is taking responsibility because, quite rightly, the people of Northern Ireland will not support the idea that politicians are paid to be Assembly Members without any serious responsibilities to undertake. What the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, has said is thoughtful; it needs to be worked on by officials at the Northern Ireland Office. We cannot simply wait until 5.30 pm on 28 June, when people suddenly begin to think, “My goodness, what can we do at this point?”. I do not imagine that they are doing that—nor do I imagine or even expect that the Minister will comment on this issue in his speech. I do not table this to ask him a question to which he should respond, because he should not; he should be working as he is doing, and as his right honourable friend in the other place is doing, to try to get an outcome. However, it is very important for us to think about what might happen in the other circumstances.

I appreciate that the implication of this legislation is that we will not have an Assembly election on the same day as the Westminster election. There are those who would have liked that to happen. I do not think that the majority of people in Northern Ireland wanted it, but for other reasons—I think it will be a very polarised Westminster election in Northern Ireland—the last thing we want to do is create out of that an Assembly even more polarised than the one before it. So it is the right decision by the Secretary of State and his colleagues, and I support it, but I raise the concern that we must not feel that, by passing this, we have put the problem to bed. As other noble Lords have said, we are simply putting on a piece of sticking plaster that takes us through the next couple of months. Then we will have some seriously difficult problems that will undoubtedly come back to your Lordships’ House one way or another.

Northern Ireland: Political Developments

Lord Elystan-Morgan Excerpts

Tuesday 28th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

I understand what the noble Lord, Lord Empey, said. It is a matter of fact that there have been round-table discussions on issues like the Programme for Government and budget setting which were chaired by the head of the Northern Ireland Civil Service. As regards the process going forward, that is something which my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is actively exploring with the parties and no doubt he will make further statements on that.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords, can the noble Lord confirm that if no acceptable compromise is reached over the next few weeks and if the situation seems to be such that we are spiralling towards direct rule, would Her Majesty’s Government, in conjunction with the other interested parties, consider inviting a statesman of international renown such as Senator George Mitchell or indeed former President Bill Clinton to intercede in the hope that this perilous impasse can be avoided?

[Lord Dunlop]

I do not want to speculate on what might happen afterwards. Our focus is on the talks that we want to hold in the hours and days ahead.

Sky and 21st Century Fox: Proposed Merger

Lord Elystan-Morgan Excerpts

Monday 6th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am not aware of the remark, but no doubt it can properly be brought to the attention of the Secretary of State.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords, the fact that the Secretary of State has seen fit to issue this statutory notice will give great satisfaction to most—if not all—Members of the other House. We well understand that these two grounds are not luxuries, not dainty sympathies, at all. They are principles that are central to the concept of liberty and the conduct of a well-ordered society. It is on that basis that we heartily welcome the Secretary of State’s decision.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to the noble Lord. I should make it clear that what the Secretary of State issued is a letter that states that she is minded to intervene: no decision has yet been made and none will be made until she has had the opportunity to consider responses to it over the next 10 days.

Disabled People: Medical Records

Lord Elystan-Morgan Excerpts

Tuesday 7th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to the noble Lord. The position is that in determining the child’s welfare needs the court will apply the factors set out in the welfare checklist in Section 1(3) of the Children Act 1989. Only where it is considered that the issue of medical condition would be relevant to the ability of a parent to care for a child would any order be made with respect to the disclosure of medical records. Those medical records may be disclosed in court but not beyond that.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan]

My Lords, does the noble and learned Lord agree that in most cases it will be very much in the interests of the child that that child should be brought up by its natural parents, wherever possible and wherever that is consistent with the welfare of that child? Does he also agree that medical records relating to the parents should never be used as a weapon against the parents but should be used to try to see what assistance can be given to those persons so that they can bring up the child, wherever it is humanly possible for them to do so?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I entirely concur with the observations of the noble Lord. I remind the House that the Children Act 1989 was amended by Section 11 of the Children and Families Act 2014, which determined that there would always be a presumption that a parent’s involvement in their child’s life will further the child’s welfare unless the contrary can be shown.

Northern Ireland Assembly Election

Lord Elystan-Morgan Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

I thank my noble friend. As I said when I repeated the Statement last week, the constitutional position of Northern Ireland is clearly set out in the Belfast agreement and the Northern Ireland Act 1998. The UK Government will absolutely meet their commitment and respect fully the constitutional position that is set out in the agreement and in that Act.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

The Good Friday agreement was a shining jewel in the turbulent history of Anglo-Irish relations. The idea that anything should happen that would jeopardise its success is no less than awesome. In the circumstances, would Her Majesty’s Government consider the possibility of using the good offices of some person, male or female, of international renown and independence to try to broker a peaceful solution in this context, something which has happened in the past with great success?

[Lord Dunlop]

I thank the noble Lord. Clearly, we will look at all ideas and suggestions for finding a way through that, and I will certainly reflect on what he said.

Serious Disturbance at HM Prison Birmingham

Lord Elystan-Morgan Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to my noble friend. As I indicated earlier, all recent published data show that there are no obvious differences in performance levels between public and private prisons. We therefore consider that we should continue with our endeavour of ensuring that the prison estate can be controlled and provided across both the public and private sectors.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

Does the noble and learned Lord accept that our courts could send fewer people to prison without there being unacceptable risk to the public? Has the time not come to review whether further judicial guidelines should be issued with a view to bringing this situation to an end?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, with respect to the noble Lord, there are very detailed sentencing guidelines now available throughout the magistrates’ courts, which deal with about 90% of all crime, the Crown Courts and the highest courts with regard to disposal. They are constantly reviewed and considered in order to try to ensure that we can minimise the extent of detention as a punishment. Clearly, the hierarchy begins with the forms of disposal that would prevent detention, whether they are a financial penalty or some punishment within the community. That continues to be our policy.

County Court Judgments

Lord Elystan-Morgan Excerpts

Tuesday 11th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

In light of the fact that there have been 1.48 million county court default judgments in the past two years, it does not appear that claimants are being deterred by court fees, which have to be managed in order that the court estate can somehow remain solvent. At the end of the day, court fees are a recoverable element.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords, I invite the Minister to consider another, equally important aspect of this matter: where no defence has been filed in a situation where a judge would otherwise have had ample scope either to dismiss the claim altogether or to rewrite the matter in a more equitable way, many people who are under severe financial strain are unable to have their side of things put in court. How can that circle be squared, if at all?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

It can be squared by defendants entering an appearance into the court process and putting forward, in any appropriate manner, the defence that they have to the claim. In these circumstances, it would appear that the system works equitably. I point out again the need to balance the interests of claimants, many of which are small and medium-sized enterprises that suffer serious problems of cash flow due to debtors, and the interests of defendants.