International Climate Action

Debate between Lord Duncan of Springbank and Earl of Selborne

Thursday 26th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

The noble Baroness reminds us again that Brexit seems to consume a lot of the bandwidth. We cannot lose sight of these issues. Long after Brexit is resolved—whichever direction it is resolved in—this will remain a challenge for our country and for all countries.

On the question of onshore and offshore wind, we are certainly global leaders in offshore wind but we need to consider much more carefully the entire renewables sector and how we move it forward. Nothing will be ruled out. We need to be careful as we move forward and, again, every aspect of renewables needs to be considered on its own terms. Offshore wind has been very successful; indeed, pricing in the offshore wind sector has shown a remarkable change in a very short period of time. We are reaching the point now where it is all but self-sustaining, which is an extraordinary achievement given that we anticipated that being a much more distant prospect.

COP26 is an opportunity for this country to focus its attention but there are a number of international meetings. We are on the glide path to COP26 and we have to work out several things. How do we form the right alliances? How do we meet the right people? How do we offer the right advice? How do we engage directly with the right levels of funding? How do we ensure that we are all facing in the same direction? One of the biggest challenges right now is encouraging those countries responsible for some of the more significant current emissions, whether that be the US, China, India or wherever, to meet the net zero target by 2050. It is all very well for me to tell noble Lords that 70 nations have reached that level of commitment; if those 70 nations do not include the principal emitters then, while it is all very interesting to see how they stack up, in truth the impact on the global climate is modest.

The Commonwealth has a vital part to play in this because it represents not just those who can provide the support but those who need the mitigation and adaptation aspects as well. We have a perfect fraternity, if you like, for dialogue about what is most needed and best supported. I would love to come to the cross-party group.

[The Earl of Selborne (Non-Afl)]

It is generally agreed that new technologies will be essential to hitting these demanding targets. The Minister referred to the areas in which we are global leaders. Indeed, we are leaders in much of the research and technology in areas such as energy storage and the development of batteries, where advanced technology will be required, and carbon capture and storage, where after all we have a national advantage, having extracted oil from the North Sea and thereby having created storage. Is the Minister satisfied that we are giving enough priority to these two areas of research and development?

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I am probably going to frighten my officials when I say that I suspect the answer is no. I think we need to be investing significantly in the technologies that are available. We also need to seriously consider how we move those technologies, given the way in which they are already used within the UK and the EU, to countries where they can do the maximum good. Carbon capture utilisation and storage offers us opportunities, if we use these methodologies wisely and carefully, in removing carbon. We have to remember that there are chemical processes—for example, the production of ammonia—where we simply cannot do without carbon dioxide because it is part of the natural chemical equation. We need to find ways of removing the carbon as best we can through those technologies.

Storage must be at the heart of where we go now. The progress that we make on wind will simply be blown away unless we can capture it and hold it in some form of storage. The pump hydro stations that exist in Scotland and Wales are a very useful example of that, and Norway has a significant number of those, but we need to think of other technologies as well, such as battery technologies, to retain that electricity.

We need to be global leaders in this area. In fact, the EU has to be a global leader in this area too, and we should be collaborating strongly through the Horizon programmes to ensure that we remain committed to technologies and ensure that they are available, not just here in Europe but wherever they can do good.