Northern Ireland: Executive and Assembly

Debate between Lord Duncan of Springbank and Baroness Blood

Monday 25th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

The Government are speaking to one and all in an attempt to reach that magical moment of bringing the key parties back to the table. No party can be left out. We shall listen to all who have something to say.

[Baroness Blood (Lab)]

My Lords, the Question asked was about the effect on the people of Northern Ireland. The Minister has just answered by saying that civil servants are civil servants. We have a practically non-functioning Civil Service in Northern Ireland, and an almost invisible Secretary of State. When will they ask the people of Northern Ireland about the effect that is having?

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I cannot give enough praise to the civil servants in Northern Ireland, who have been asked to stand above and beyond what they are expected to do. They are in regular dialogue, and we are in regular dialogue with them. The key issue now is that it does not matter how much dialogue you have, if you do not have a functioning Executive, what you hear cannot be taken forward in a meaningful way, and that silences the voice of the people of Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland: Devolved Institutions

Debate between Lord Duncan of Springbank and Baroness Blood

Wednesday 23rd May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

The Government are studying that judgment very carefully. Its implications are significant; indeed, an appeal against it may be lodged. It is a reminder that we need a restored Executive because we cannot keep placing on the shoulders of civil servants such a heavy and onerous burden.

[Baroness Blood (Lab)]

My Lords, following on from the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, I understand that there will be an appeal, which will take six months, and then another appeal, which will take a further six months. Northern Ireland does not have that capacity; we do not have that time. We have an almost invisible Secretary of State. People on the ground believe that Westminster’s only interest in Northern Ireland is Brexit and the border. Given that, the one question being asked on the streets of Northern Ireland today is: who is actually running Northern Ireland?

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

Brexit has been a focus of discussion in this House and elsewhere. The people of Northern Ireland deserve an Executive focused on the issues that matter to them: education, health, schools, farming and all the obvious stuff. We need to get the Executive back up and running; the parties need to do so. At the moment, the pilot light is on, but no one is twirling those knobs. We need to get the Executive restored.

Northern Ireland Finances

Debate between Lord Duncan of Springbank and Baroness Blood

Tuesday 13th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I thank the noble Lord for his intervention. The £410 million will do good across the communities. I believe that it will be spent wisely and will address a number of the challenges that have been experienced in Northern Ireland, which will be good to see. However, I want to be very clear that we need to be in a situation where these matters are addressed at a local level—not just in terms of the allocation but, more importantly, in terms of scrutiny. There must be full transparency and full confidence in the manner in which this money is constructed and allocated, and spending overseen. We must have great confidence in that; it will go some way to restoring confidence in governance in Northern Ireland, not just in what we are trying to do to bring about a stable and sustainable Executive.

[Baroness Blood (Lab)]

My Lords, I will ask the Minister a brief question and a direct one: We welcome the extra money going into Northern Ireland, especially around health and education, but who will make the decision about where that money will go? Last year, in James Brokenshire’s Statement, £50 million of the confidence and supply money was given to mental health. To this day, not one penny of that £50 million has been spent, simply because there is no local Minister to sign it off. Will we be tied by the same regulations, for instance around the infrastructure money? Who will make up their mind who will get the money and where it will go? Will it come direct from Westminster? What is the position?

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I thank the noble Baroness for her intervention. Money allocated and unspent does not do any good. It is as simple as that. We must be in a position to ensure that the money allocated is spent. We believe this is best achieved through the departmental structure that exists in Northern Ireland. The determination of the overall scale of spend has already been achieved through direct consultation with civil servants in Northern Ireland. They will be responsible also for the delivery of that money into the various, clearly set out projects. It will be necessary not only for the money to be spent but for it to be transparent and clear. The people of Northern Ireland must be able to see that and recognise what good the money is doing to meet challenges that are now well established and well recognised. The noble Baroness will be aware of several of these challenges in the areas of health and education. But I stress again that the money and responsibility will rest with the departments. We will ensure that it is spent in a transparent manner that will give confidence to those who see the money and, hopefully, see the good it will achieve.

Northern Ireland Update

Debate between Lord Duncan of Springbank and Baroness Blood

Tuesday 20th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

The noble Lord, Lord Bew, puts his finger upon it. The Good Friday agreement has to work. We are in challenging times right now; there is no question about that. It is right that during this time the voices of Northern Ireland are heard loud and clear and are allowed to speak for themselves. The last thing the people of Northern Ireland need is me speaking for them. They need to be able to articulate the concerns and issues that they live with on a daily basis. The transition agreement is going to be negotiated in coming months. It is right and proper that their voices are heard. Whether they are heard through an Executive, which we hope and pray will be reformed, or whether through individual councillors and MLAs, with all the communities represented, we cannot ignore the voices of those who will stand on the border between ourselves and the European Union. We would be short-sighted and foolish if we did. As I emphasised earlier, I hope that it will be through a reformed Executive, chastened by the 13 months in which they were absent but recognising right now that the clock is ticking and that the voices of Northern Ireland must be part of the ongoing Brexit negotiations.

[Baroness Blood (Lab)]

My Lords, I have listened carefully to what the Minister has said and I cannot understand it. He tells us in one part that it is about the people, and in another part that the people really have nothing to do with all these secret talks and that they cannot be told what is going on. I do not understand that. I do not understand why some form of what happened cannot be put to the people of Northern Ireland to let them decide. People in the street will tell you that they want to know what happened. There is no point in having another election as the same thing would happen. We have to put it to the people. I am very surprised at the Conservatives: they had no problem putting the Brexit referendum to the people when they wanted it. The Good Friday agreement came about through a referendum and I fail to understand why this cannot be put to the people in a form that is easily understood. Let us take it from there. I have to tell the Minister that we are never going to get any real agreement with what is going on at the moment.

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

I thank the noble Baroness for her contribution. I would draw a distinction between democracy and representative democracy. The demos—the people—have chosen particular political parties. The Belfast agreement recognises those parties and their role in delivering what I hope will be a fully functioning Executive. The people will hold their representatives to account, and they must do so in whatever way they feel to be appropriate, given the situation that Northern Ireland finds itself in. The key thing that I hope I leave with noble Lords today is that this Government remain fully committed to facilitating the ongoing dialogue. We were tantalisingly close, and we owe it to the people of Northern Ireland to continue to reach across that divide. If we do not, Northern Ireland will be the poorer spiritually, economically and in its contribution to the ongoing and important Brexit discussions. Please be assured that this Government will do all they can to bring about a fully functioning Executive. I thank all noble Lords who have made clear today that there is a commitment across this House to deliver a fully functioning Executive.