Feed-in Tariffs (Amendment) (No. 3) Order 2015
Lord Donoughue Excerpts(8 years, 9 months ago)
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Lord Haskins (CB)
My Lords, as chairman of the Humber Local Enterprise Partnership, I am very interested in this debate because the Humber area generates 25% of the country’s electricity and provides 25% of the country’s oil and petrol. We have every type of energy activity short of nuclear and hydro. We are very diverse. It is a very important part of our history—and future.
In the past 10 years we have had considerable support from the Government in moving towards a change in the nature of our industry away from coal towards renewables. In the past six months, however, partly because of the volatility of the markets, the Government have appeared to be a little less sure about where they are going than they were a few months ago. My particular interest is offshore wind, where, thanks to the Government, a huge investment from Siemens is now under way to produce substantial quantities of offshore wind for the nation.
There is a hiccup at present because people are not too sure where they are going. The plan, for Siemens and for all of us, is that by 2024-25 offshore wind will be competitive with any other form of energy. But for that to happen, we need undertakings that the support will be given during that period and a commitment from the industry that substantial research and development will take place to lower those costs. It is very important from our point of view that there is clarity about the Government’s energy policy going forward so that people who are sitting on their hands at the moment waiting to invest can have the confidence to invest in the future, which they want to do.
Lord Donoughue (Lab)
My Lords, I will be brief but I have to say that I regret—although I am not surprised—that the Liberal Democrats have brought forward this Motion. I think it is the first time in 31 years in this House that I have publicly supported a Conservative proposal but on this occasion we should acknowledge that the Conservative Secretary of State has at last done something not to halt but to slow what has been going on for some years, which has been rightly described as a massive transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.
As a member of the Labour Party for 62 years, I have always opposed that kind of approach, and for some time I have been rather surprised that my own party seems not only to connive at it but to have initiated much of it. It is a massive transfer. It is the ordinary working families that pay the higher energy prices that come from green taxes. They pay through their income taxes, supporting subsidies—I have to say that there are people here who seem to be subsidy addicts. It is employers and those giving jobs to working people who suffer from these higher energy prices. The decent working men of Redcar and Port Talbot have suffered from having higher costs, although mainly because of the Chinese moves. I recently met an employer in heavy manufacturing who demonstrated to me how his high energy costs were a major factor in putting his business at risk and where he, too, might have to make working men unemployed.
There is a major issue for me, as a Labour person, about how my party supports such measures to transfer massive wealth from the poor to the rich. There are one or two in this House who make millions from renting wind turbines, having solar panels and so forth. I am sure that they will declare their interests when they speak but that troubles me in particular. The right reverend Prelate said that it is only a little. Well, for many people a little is a lot. I notice that nobody supporting this Motion, other than him, appears even to defend the fact that this imposes such a burden on the working people. It is a small amount but it is part of a process that produces a massive burden on them.
I understand the desires to go for a green environment, where possible. I should point out to the noble Lord, Lord Deben, that while I very much enjoyed his contribution I was reminded that his father was an Anglican vicar. I think that he would have been proud of that speech, which could well have come from many of the pulpits that I have enjoyed. I noted that he claimed to be independent. I totally accept that, as I am independent in my lifelong support for Northampton Town Football Club and the Northampton rugby club, but it is a certain kind of independence. When the noble Lord very impressively and emotionally attacks those who question his position, of whom I am one although I question only part of it, he says that we do not accept climate change and all that goes with it. I have to tell him that I accept climate change; I do not know a single sceptic who does not. For me, climate change is what has always happened, in cycles. It is happening now and we accept that. I accept that the globe is warming and that human activities play a part in it. I do not know where these straw men are who seem to agitate the noble Lord so much. We wish to question—
Lord Deben
If the noble Lord accepts climate change, why has he opposed every single measure to try to do something about it?
Lord Donoughue
It is the old problem: I do not know what evidence the noble Lord bases that on. He does not know what I have supported in the past, so I will not accept that, but we will not delay the House for longer on this. It is about querying arguments in the true Enlightenment tradition and questioning where the burden of the price goes. What we object to, although nobody proposing the Motion seems to have reservations about it, is that the less well-off in this country pay through regressive green taxes—
Baroness Worthington
It is a lovely speech but I point out that, on a global scale, the people suffering the most from climate change are the global poor. We have a moral responsibility to show leadership in this country. We can afford to do this and we will benefit from doing it. We will have jobs and inward investment from doing this. To use the hard-working people of Britain as an excuse not to do it is a real shame.
Lord Donoughue
I have read much of the evidence about who suffers in the world from this but I do not accept what the noble Baroness says. The Secretary of State should be encouraged to do more looking at who pays for so much of this burden. It is understandable if the Secretary of State is concerned about this country’s massive debt, which does not appear to concern many Members in this House. I dissent from this Regret Motion and trust that it will go no further.
Viscount Ridley
My Lords, I omitted to mention my interests and I apologise to the House for that. I do not have interests in solar power, which is what I mostly spoke about—mainly because I have turned away solar developers—but I do have other interests in energy, including coal.
Energy: Onshore Wind
Lord Donoughue Excerpts(9 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth
The right reverend Prelate makes an important point. I do not have the specific figure, but it is certainly billions of pounds, and the typical lifetime of a contract or a subsidy in relation to a wind farm is 20 years. But I would remind the House that this is for an important purpose. It is in order that we can reach our decarbonisation targets, and we are determined to do that by getting the mix right. This is about balancing the interests of the consumer and keeping bills down—which I think we would all want to ensure as much as possible—with the interests of ensuring that we have clean and secure energy. As I say, it is about getting the mix right, and I believe we have done that.
Lord Donoughue (Lab)
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that from the Government’s own projections the cost to consumers of these subsidies for windmills and solar, which I believe are currently running at 5% of household energy expenditure, will treble to 15% by 2030? Does he agree with the left-leaning Institute for Public Policy Research, a greatly respected body, that such green taxes are deeply regressive and by 2030 will amount to £226 per household? That constitutes a heavy burden on the ordinary householder.
Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth
My Lords, I am entering dangerous territory when I am asked to agree with a left-wing organisation. What I will say to the noble Lord is that the cost is immense, but the cost of doing nothing is even more immense. We are determined to get the balance right so that we have clean energy and we are protecting the planet, but at the same time bills have to be affordable—we are very conscious of the fact that some people struggle with their bills—and we have to have security of energy supply.