BBC World Service: Finances

Lord Dobbs Excerpts

Wednesday 24th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, in his previous field as a diplomat, the noble Lord obviously had direct experience of the importance and support that the World Service provides. As I have said, these views are important and will be reflected on as we take forward the overall review of the BBC and its funding. I repeat that the BBC World Service provides a valuable service—as I have seen directly in the field through various travels—in a range of languages. Many people rely on the World Service, particularly at times of conflict. In areas such as Ukraine, and in the current conflict in the Middle East, it continues to play a vital role.

[Lord Dobbs (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome my noble friend’s description of how vital the World Service is. In the past the Government have described it as essential, invaluable and playing a vital role, and surely its role could not be more vital given the way the world is turning right now. The Government spend almost £12 billion a year on foreign aid, and the Prime Minister yesterday announced many more billions to be spent on defence. Surely there must be a better way for this vital tool of soft power to be funded than relying on the licence fee, where inevitably it has to compete with the likes of Gary Lineker and Peppa Pig.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I am glad my noble friend did not ask me who I prefer watching out of Gary Lineker or Peppa Pig; it depends what mood I am in. On the point he raises, the integrated review in 2023 identified that the BBC World Service is vital. As we heard from the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, it is a vital component of soft power and for countering disinformation, and it is important that it is properly funded. The majority of the World Service is funded by the TV licence fee, but we gave that extra uplift of £20 million last year as part of our review and commitment.

Israel and Gaza

Lord Dobbs Excerpts

Tuesday 27th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Dobbs (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend has hit the nail on the head, has he not? He suggests that Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist, and the Israeli Government do not accept a two-state solution. When two combatants will not agree on what, as my noble friend has said, is the only solution—a two-state solution—surely the inexorable logic is to pick up on the word that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, used: enforcement. Is it not the case that the only way we will get a peace settlement in the Middle East is by the international community enforcing its will on these two combatants in a way that we have not yet considered?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I assure my noble friend that we are considering all elements. When we look at the two combatants, as he described them, Israel is a recognised state with international obligations and is important as a partner and friend. We remind it of its obligations. Those with influence over Hamas are reminded that violence is never a means to an end. Enforcement means we ensure that every lever of our diplomacy, every lever we have working with our international partners, is used on both sides to ensure, first and foremost, that the fighting stops; secondly, that we build the process to ensure sustainable peace; and, thirdly, that it is understood that there will be no future peace unless we have two nations that recognise not only their own sovereign right to exist but, equally, that the people and citizens of those two countries must enjoy equal rights, security and justice.

AUKUS Security Partnership

Lord Dobbs Excerpts

Tuesday 13th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a good point, which is that, ultimately, Britain and France should co-operate as closely as we can, because we are similar-sized powers with similar-sized militaries and global ambitions. That is what the Lancaster House agreement that he did so much to bring about was all about. What I would say to French partners now looking at this is that what AUKUS does for UK capacity is make sure that we replace the Astute submarines, which are incredibly high-tech and successful, with a new-generation AUKUS submarine—so the funding and the capacity are in place for that. We are assuring our future, and that is good for France because we can then talk with it about how it will secure the future of its submarine programme.

[Lord Dobbs (Con)]

My Lords, nobody has yet mentioned China, so allow me to do so. Will my noble friend agree that it is important that we continue to talk with China and find as many areas, and expand on as many areas, of agreement as possible? But, in all this discussion, is it not possible to focus too narrowly on the threat of China? Should we not do more to embrace the democracies in Asia, such as Japan, India, Malaysia and South Korea? They are already more populous than China, are growing economically much faster than China and, in a few years’ time, will be far more economically powerful than China.

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

I very much agree with my noble friend. You can do both those things. It is important that we have a relationship with China. We have many disagreements, and it is an “epoch-defining challenge”, as the integrated review puts it, but, where we can find areas to progress discussions, we should. However, my noble friend is completely right to focus on the emerging democracies of the Far East, which is why I note not just AUKUS but the Hiroshima accord, the ASEAN relationship and the ministerial connections we have in Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam. I think I was the first ever serving Prime Minister to visit Vietnam, and I hope to go back soon.

Recycled Plastics

Lord Dobbs Excerpts

Tuesday 13th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I do not want to rake over the Scottish National Party’s grief, but it sought to have a different scheme from the rest of the United Kingdom—for whatever reason we can only conjecture. It is important to have one system across the whole United Kingdom. Many businesses and individuals were fiercely opposed to what was proposed to be introduced in Scotland, and we are glad that the Scottish Government pulled it. We can now move forward with one scheme that is effective across the United Kingdom and can really deliver. Those of us who can remember how deposit schemes worked in the past can see how it can work in the future. What was created in Scotland through certain applications of that scheme would have proved disastrous. We want to make sure that this happens properly across these islands.

[Lord Dobbs (Con)]

My Lords, I understand that some local authorities require seven different recycling bins, which threatens chaos. Does the Minister believe that the answer to our recycling challenge is to increase the number of recycling bins for us all or to make central recycling facilities work much more effectively?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Lord will know that different local authorities have different ways of doing this. There are technologies now that can separate plastics and other recyclable waste, but one undoubtedly needs a separate receptacle for food and various other wastes. I do not see how our proposal would lead to seven different recycling bins; it would just not work in those circumstances.

Situation in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories

Lord Dobbs Excerpts

Tuesday 30th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The British Government have never defined what genocide is; we leave that for a court to do. However, we do not believe that this qualifies as genocide. We accept, and are pleased by, the ruling of the court in its calls for the release of the hostages and for the necessity of getting aid into Gaza.

[Lord Dobbs (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister referred to the failure of the international community for 30 years or more in this matter. That implies that, if a two-state solution is to be brought about, as the Foreign Secretary said last night—and I very much welcome his remarks, and indeed the very balanced remarks of the Opposition, if I may say so, this afternoon—that surely implies that simply asking them to bring about a solution is not going to be enough. It requires more than just persuasion, and possibly a degree of international coercion on both sides, to bring about a solution in the wider interest. That is difficult when the Israeli Government, as at the moment, do not believe in and have rejected a two-state solution. Does the Minister have any ideas how the real problem of Hamas might be dealt with in this ongoing discussion?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

None of these solutions is entirely in our gift. We do not have the ability to wave a wand or send a gunboat or do all the things that Foreign Ministers might have done in centuries past. It comes down to really hard work and old-fashioned diplomacy. That is what my noble friend the Foreign Secretary, the Prime Minister, other Ministers, my noble friend Lord Ahmad—who has been ceaselessly working on this—and the Diplomatic Service have been trying to draw together. We think we have a thread which can lead towards a solution. We have to be positive about this. If you just think of the world as it exists—my noble friend referred to 8 October, the day after the attack—it is so bleak and depressing that you can hardly see a way forward. But there is a solution and we know it can work. It comes down to working with our partners, and, most of all, working with the Government of Israel and with sensible people in the Occupied Territories, to make sure that we can have a solution which is free of Hamas and gives lasting security to the Palestinian people and Israeli citizens.

UK-EU Relationship

Lord Dobbs Excerpts

Tuesday 5th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

I thank the noble Earl for his question. These structured dialogues seem to work. Only yesterday, the one on citizenship met—I think for the 14th time—and made some important progress. I think there is a role for them, but also for using all the connections, structures and other meetings we have to try to push forward British interests. For instance, in my meeting with Commissioner Šefčovič, there is the whole issue of having an energy partnership. I think that is an excellent idea, but we have to get to grips quickly with electricity trading. It makes sense: we have these interconnectors, so let us trade the electricity and try to have lower prices here and lower prices there. That is an obvious example of win-win co-operation, but we should have a more structured dialogue at the same time, of course, and I will certainly read the report to which the noble Earl refers, which I have not yet seen.

[Lord Dobbs (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted that my noble friend decided to come to this place—a decision that is probably much wiser than the one he made when he sent me here. May I ask him about relations with Greece? I declare my interest in the register as a member of the Parthenon Project, whose objective is to create a privately funded foundation to encourage exchanges of teachers, professors and students between our two countries, and also to share our priceless cultural objects and artefacts, which include the Elgin marbles—yes, it is not just the loony left. In our really crappy world, is it not right that we should reach out and use as much soft power as we can to reforge and strengthen our relations with our old friends?

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his question. I well remember sending him here, because a week later we lost a vote by one, and he was the responsible noble Lord. I remember having some words with him after that—although, clearly, it had absolutely no effect. I do not agree with what he says about the Elgin marbles. The Government have a very clear position on that, which has been set out. I met the Greek Foreign Minister while I was at the NATO conference, and we had a great discussion about all the other aspects of our relationship, where we are strong friends, allies and partners.

Ethiopia: Peace Process

Lord Dobbs Excerpts

Monday 5th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we need to focus on practical solutions, which is why, even with the United Nations, we have focused on supporting the African Union’s efforts. There could be a multitude of organisations working on the ground, but we need a focused peace. We are working with various other international agencies: UNICEF, the WFP, the Ethiopia Humanitarian Fund, the ICRC, the World Health Organization, the IOM, UNHCR—the list continues. It is important that we have a co-ordinated effort, which is best done by regional partners—namely, the African Union. Oh! I am working with musical accompaniment as well now.

[Lord Dobbs (Con)]

My Lords, I apologise for that interruption by my phone. I never cease to be encouraged by the ambition of Members of this House to have an impact in parts of the world where, frankly, we have very little political clout. We give very substantial amounts of money, as my noble friend the Minister has just outlined; what measures are we able to take to ensure that that great deal of aid money is in fact spent on the causes that we intend it to be, rather than siphoned off and spent, as I fear too much aid is, by people in whose pockets we would simply not wish to find that money?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend raises an important point, not just in the context of Ethiopia but everywhere where British taxpayers’ money is spent. It is important that the Government stand accountable for ensuring that money is spent on the intention for which it has been given. That is why I sought to provide specific answers on some of the programmes. I have already given one or two examples; I mentioned the ICRC, for which our funding of £4 million has helped in the treatment of 17,700 wounded people and 116,000 other patients. There are other specific numbers that I can provide to my noble friend. It is important because, undoubtedly, anywhere that humanitarian support is provided, there is a need for local accountability mechanisms and a full audit of how money is spent to ensure that those who are most vulnerable and in need get the money and support that they require.

Her Late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II

Lord Dobbs Excerpts

Friday 9th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine (CB)]

My Lords, I seem to be taking part in that bit of the proceedings where there are a lot of people who never had the honour of meeting Her late Majesty Queen Elizabeth. I, among others in our nation and beyond, have known her only as our singular sovereign. I say that as a first-generation migrant to this country, coming from a republic, so my early experience was not of her as my Head of State. In fact, for many years after I arrived here, I continued to be a republican, but her example finally cured me of that heresy about 30 years ago.

The Queen’s presence among Commonwealth countries has been remarked on considerably today. There never was any doubt as to her status within that family of nations as its head. My first memory of seeing her was as a very young child when she and the late Duke of Edinburgh visited what was then East Pakistan, today’s Bangladesh, in 1961. My late father, who was an army officer, and my mother took us to Chittagong in a state of great excitement. My mother was of her generation, I think born in the same year, and was incredibly excited to see “the Queen”—there was never any question of needing a name—in the flesh. The Queen spoke beautifully, but more importantly for me as a child, she wore a beautiful dress. That sense of style stayed with her to the end.

In more recent times, I saw her in operation in her beloved Commonwealth when I served as a staffer at the Queensland CHOGM of 2002. I see that the noble Lord, Lord Jay, is not in his place; he was there as well in a slightly more significant role. It was a difficult one, after the 9/11 attacks, the problems of Mugabe and Zimbabwean democracy, and the expulsion of Pakistan after the Musharraf coup. There was a general sense of crisis. I said to my boss, who was a veteran of those meetings, “Oh my God, does she really need this on her plate?”, to which his reply was, “My dear girl, the odd coup or two in between these meetings wouldn’t even cause her to blink. She’s seen it all.”

A lot has been said about the late Queen Elizabeth’s personal qualities as our sovereign, but I also pay tribute to her deep knowledge and understanding of complex issues. After we as a country experienced the global financial crash of 2008, a furious debate was raging about all the assumptions that underpinned financial markets and capitalism. She asked to meet a bunch of senior economists at the London School of Economics, of which I am an alumnus. Nobel Prize winners were lined up wall to wall. After listening to the great and good in the world of economics, she asked the simplest of questions: “Why didn’t you see this coming?” This was the question being asked up and down the land in every house. She was always ahead of the game.

Tributes this morning spoke about the role faith played in the Queen’s life and the umbrella that the Church of England holds up on behalf of all faiths in our country. Speaking as another person from the Muslim world, I can say that the service that Queen Elizabeth represents, and which King Charles has so clearly articulated he wishes to continue, will sustain all their subjects in the weeks and years to come.

I am confident that we are, in our sorrow, one indivisible United Kingdom, irrespective of race, religion or creed. All of us mourn her passing. Our thoughts and prayers are with King Charles III and the wider family.

[Lord Dobbs (Con)]

My Lords, it is truly humbling to take part in this debate after so many eloquent speeches from those who have known Her late Majesty so well, but I want to pay my own short tribute to a woman who has influenced so much of my life.

I suppose my most solid connection with Her late Majesty is the fact that I was born in the very same hour as her eldest son, our new King. I do not remember the occasion particularly well, but the birth certificate bears this out. As a young boy, I remember looking at the back of my pale hand and seeing these very blue veins and wondering just a little bit, “What if?” Fortunately, you and I have been spared.

Our late Queen came to us as a shy young woman and left us as the greatest of Queens, to stand alongside—perhaps even a step above—Victoria and the first Elizabeth. She was a Queen; a monarch; a woman; a wife who loved but one man ever, and who herself was loved by millions. She led us on the extraordinary and historic journey from an ageing and ailing empire to the enduring friendships of the Commonwealth, about which we have heard so much.

She was a woman who placed duty first, second and third, and who began it all again every single morning. That sense of duty and dignity, that unflappability, personal courage and wisdom, that love of Marmite sandwiches and, oh, that smile, and even shouts of joy—yes, she loved her horses, and winning. She was no pale functionary. She was an example of selfless leadership and we could have done no better; she was an example to us all. She was a golden thread that ran through the tapestries of our lives and the sinews that bind this nation together. They were bonds not of fear—that is the prerogative of leaders in some other countries—but of affection and of devotion; bonds which had tens of thousands of us pouring towards Buckingham Palace, not waving machine guns and severed heads but waving banners and shouting not chants of revolution but songs of joy. We were waving banners that told her how devoted to her we were and how much we loved her. That little word, “love”, keeps cropping up in our discussions about Elizabeth. How we rejoiced at her many jubilees. What fun we had, as other nations marvelled and quietly envied the very British secret that was Elizabeth.

Now the torch passes to another generation, whose sorrows today we share. We send our commiserations to our new King, His Majesty King Charles III, his Queen Consort, Camilla, and the entire family. We thank them for sharing with us the long, long life of such an extraordinary lady. We will bury her not only with sadness but with unquenchable pride and endless gratitude. Thank you, Ma’am.

The Queen is dead. Long live the King.

[The Earl of Devon (CB)]

My Lords, I salute Her glorious and beloved Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II. Given her age and recent frailty, we have all, I am sure, imagined this day, but in its awesome realisation, I think we find it almost unimaginable and wholly surreal. We are, as a nation, bereft, with tears flowing unexpectedly and a peculiar ache of loss.

Her Majesty reigned for so long that this time feels unprecedented to us all, but of course it is not. I speak not to offer personal anecdotes—like the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, I never met her personally—and we have heard so many warm and wonderful reminiscences. Rather, I offer the House context in my role as the Earl of Devon, a title that has a particular affinity with our female monarchs.

The title was created by our first, and often forgotten, female monarch, Matilda. She was granddaughter of William I, whose reign was cruelly usurped on the death of her father, Henry I. The first Baron to raise his standard in her support was Baldwin, at Exeter Castle. For his unwavering support of the right of a woman to reign, he was created Earl of Devon in 1142.

Our second and unfairly maligned female monarch was Queen Mary. The Earl of Devon, her cousin, protested her parents’ divorce and the young princess’s own unjust disinheritance. As a result, he was attained and beheaded by Henry VIII for his devotion to female monarchy. The Earl’s young son grew up a prisoner in the Tower of London until Mary’s eventual succession, at which point he was released, recreated Earl of Devon, and carried the sword of state at her Coronation.

It is that title that I bear and, although the principles of inherited duty may be contentious outside the Royal Family, I am proud to speak on behalf of a family that served Matilda, Mary and each of our subsequent female monarchs, thankfully without a beheading for some centuries. It has been an enormous privilege to add my little part to that tradition of service to female rule.

Ethiopia: Humanitarian and Security Situation

Lord Dobbs Excerpts

Tuesday 6th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

HMA Addis Ababa and the UK special envoy to the Horn of Africa met Prime Minister Abiy on 12 May and Deputy Prime Minister Demeke and National Security Adviser Redwan on 16 August. We are continuously pressing for a resumption of peace talks. The Minister for Africa visited Ethiopia in January this year and has been very public on this issue on a regular basis. We are actively supporting the African Union’s efforts to mediate. The noble Lord says that there should be no preconditions, but clearly it is essential that at the very base of those discussions there is an agreement that Tigrayan forces must leave Amhara—that is non-negotiable—and that Eritrean forces should withdraw from Ethiopia. Although I cannot answer the noble Lord’s question in relation to Secretary Blinken, I am absolutely certain that the answer is yes. However, I cannot answer that authoritatively; I will ensure that he has an answer from the Minister for Africa.

[Lord Dobbs (Con)]

My Lords, one of the distressing aspects of this terrible situation is the deliberate destruction of cultural artefacts within Ethiopia, so may I try to link this Question with the earlier Question about cultural artefacts? Even from the Floor of this House, there have been recent calls for the immediate return of 11 religious tablets held in the British Museum that came from the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. Would it not be madness, given this present situation, to think about doing that right now? Might I encourage the Minister to have a word with his colleague, the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson—he will not have to go too far to have this conversation—about coming up with a much more grown-up policy about the return of cultural artefacts, which, above all, recognises the incredible part that British museums have played as custodians of these artefacts which otherwise would not be in any museum and would have been destroyed long ago?

Ukraine

Lord Dobbs Excerpts

Wednesday 13th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, it is wisdom which ensures that we stand up united against anyone who aggresses in the way that Russia has. We are doing so with our European allies, the US and others. The noble Lord describes the conflict as one that is seven years old, but what is very true is that Crimea was annexed illegally; it is occupied illegally. We need to ensure that Russia stops this and the very issues the noble Lord alluded to, and it can do it now. Pull back and stop the war.

[Lord Dobbs (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend accept that the coldest winter that Europe—and, indeed, the rest of the world—could possibly experience would be if Russa were to win this vicious war that it started? This war cannot succeed in the way that Russia wants if the rest of the world is to move forward.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend, which is why united we stand.