Media: News Corporation

Debate between Lord De Mauley and Lord Birt

Friday 15th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord De Mauley]

I am most grateful to the noble Lord, for whom I have the greatest respect, for giving way. I draw his attention to the usual courtesy to the House of participants withdrawing if they are unable to arrive in time to hear the opening speeches in a debate. Other noble Lords who unfortunately found themselves in the same position as him have courteously agreed to withdraw from the debate. In acknowledging that business this morning moved faster than anticipated, I say with great respect that it is for each of us individually to arrange our lives to be here even if matters proceed so quickly. The House even, unusually, allowed five minutes’ grace before the start of the debate. I appeal to the noble Lord to consider carefully whether he should speak. If he insists, it is of course a matter for the House to decide whether your Lordships wish to hear him.

[Lord Birt]

My Lords, I was going to apologise—I do apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, and the noble Baroness, Lady Royall. I was misinformed about the likely start time of this debate, and I was here at the time when I was told that it was likely to start. Of course I will respect the will of the House, and I ask the House whether it wishes to hear my views on this important matter. I detect that the mood is that I should continue.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, I think that the convention would be to do so in the gap. I am sure that the House would like to hear the noble Lord.

[Lord Birt]

My Lords, this is profoundly unreasonable. My office called the Whips’ Office this morning, not yesterday, and was told that the debate was likely to start at 12.30 pm. I have not prepared a two-minute speech; I have prepared a longer speech, and I am not willing to speak for two minutes. I have never, and would never, wish to be discourteous in any way to this House. Again, I ask the House to allow me to make the speech that I have prepared.

[Lord Gilbert]

My Lords, I am in a similar position. I consulted both the Government Whips and the Opposition Whips last night and was told that the debate was likely to start at half-past one. I got here well before half-past one. I am very apologetic to the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, but we must have some arrangement whereby the people who are responsible for our getting here too late are called to account. It is simply not fair to proceed on any other basis.