Armed Forces: Accommodation

Debate between Lord De Mauley and Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde

Thursday 1st March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that one of the ways of resolving this difficult problem would be to ring-fence within the MoD the budget for accommodation? The Armed Forces Pay Review Body has asked for that for many years, because whenever there are cutbacks it is the accommodation budget that gets attacked and reduced first. The accommodation that we ask some of our service personnel, both single and families, to have as their homes is a disgrace.

[Lord De Mauley]

I agree with the noble Baroness’s sentiment. If I may, I will pass her suggestion to the review.

Postal Services Bill

Debate between Lord De Mauley and Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde

Tuesday 17th May 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Dean, for tabling Amendment 67, as it concerns a vital issue. I also hope that she found my letter on the matter following Committee useful even if she was not entirely satisfied by it. I am grateful to her for finding time to meet me to discuss the matter, which the Government take extremely seriously.

Amendment 67 proposes to give Ofcom the power to limit the indebtedness of the universal service provider in relation to the overall value of the company. The noble Baroness speaks from great experience on this issue and the noble Lord, Lord Young, expanded on her experience, which we value greatly. She made it clear how important it is that Ofcom has the power to monitor the finances of the universal service provider and to act where the situation demands. I very much acknowledge that point. I reassure her and your Lordships generally that Ofcom is well equipped to tackle the risk of unsustainable levels of debt within the universal service provider. As I said in Committee, Ofcom already has the power to impose designated USP conditions through Clause 35 that could include conditions akin to the condition 16 requirement in the Royal Mail’s existing licence. That condition does not allow the Royal Mail to do anything that,

“creates any significant risk that the necessary resources will not be available to”,

carry on its business.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Dean, has mentioned, Ofcom also has powers under Clauses 38 and 53 to require information from the universal service provider and to set accounting conditions to ensure it can accurately monitor the costs of the universal postal service. I appreciate that the noble Baroness, Lady Dean, is concerned at the conditionality implied by my use of “could include”, in the context of a condition 16 requirement in the Royal Mail’s licence. There is no reason I can think of why the condition 16 requirement will not be so included. However, it will not be a matter for the Government. It will be a matter for Ofcom. I hope that the noble Baroness will find considerable comfort when I say that Ofcom’s primary duty for the post is to secure the provision of the universal service. If Ofcom considered that it was essential to use any or all of the powers that I have mentioned in order to deliver that objective, it would, as my noble friend Lord Eccles has said, be legally obliged to do so. I hope and believe that this is what the noble Baroness seeks to achieve through her amendment. With these assurances, I hope that she will feel able to withdraw Amendment 67.

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate and particularly the Minister for meeting me this morning to discuss the issue. We are all trying to get to the same spot. The question is how we do it. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, that I do not feel as faint-hearted as she appears to be about putting a debt level on this. This will be a business, with regulated and very transparent charges. It is not like a plc. What is suggested here applies now in the air traffic control regulated business in the UK. The CAA suggested this—though not in this exact wording—and set a gearing level beyond which National Air Traffic Services could not go. I declare I am a member of the board of NATS. The structure of the organisation is part public and part private sector. Nevertheless, NATS is in the CAA stage of regulation for the next three years.

It is, therefore, possible to do it. I accept that it would be a lot more difficult in a wholly private industry which is not regulated like the new universal service provider will be. It has been a helpful debate. I have not reached the destination that I wanted to. Nevertheless there is concern around the House. I hope that Ofcom will take the comments on board when it is looking at what will be a very difficult and sensitive decision. This presupposes that there are buyers out there that will want to take on the universal service provision. I would like to withdraw this amendment.

Postal Services Bill

Debate between Lord De Mauley and Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde

Wednesday 6th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, I was encouraged, and I hope rightly so, by the Minister’s response that this matter would be considered between now and Report. Will that consideration include ensuring that we are not faced with Ofcom regulating after the sale, and that we have cover for the sale itself? If I had that assurance, I would be delighted to withdraw the amendment.

[Lord De Mauley]

I am sorry. May I ask the noble Baroness to repeat that? I was having words in my right ear.

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

I noticed that the noble Lord was somewhat distracted. My concern on this amendment is that if, on looking at the indebtedness of a potential USP, the Government come forward with a wholly acceptable measure, they do not do so after the boat has sailed—in other words, not after the sale. That is because the debt level which may or may not be raised by whatever model the Government decide on for the sale could still burden the company, although there would be provision for the future. Will the Minister please take that into account when he considers the matter before Report?

[Lord De Mauley]

Of course, my Lords.

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

I thank the Minister very much for that. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.