National Insurance Contributions (Employer Pensions Contributions) Bill

Debate between Lord de Clifford and Baroness Kramer

Committee stage
Tuesday 24th February 2026 Grand Committee

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, has relieved me of the burden of trying to explain the primary clause within my amendment, which would require a formal review and report on the OBR supplementary forecast information release. As she said, this came out on 5 February, I understand in response to an FoI request, which, frankly, is no way to provide information to Parliament. As she said, it concludes that behavioural response to the measure—and that is key to the impact that this Bill will have—is highly uncertain. The further detail that she provided is so similar to what I would have provided that I am not going to repeat it. I thank the noble Lord, Lord de Clifford, for also signing this.

The other part of the review would cover the operational remuneration arrangements and the impact on pension adequacy and salaries. I know the Minister thought he covered this issue, but I think he could tell that in the Room uncertainty continues. Further clarification is needed around this issue because employers are going to be looking for that. This is an opportunity to provide it.

I have to say that I do not think I have ever seen an OBR report that is so filled with the word “uncertainty”. Obviously, it stands behind what it has written, but it does not feel like a report that has been written with a great deal of confidence. That confidence needs to be in place for Parliament to act on legislation.

[Lord de Clifford (CB)]

I have the pleasure of supporting the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer. At Second Reading, I raised behavioural change and the OBR’s forecast about the drop in income is essential. Employers will look to find the most tax efficient way to make pension payments, and therefore we need the OBR to make sure that it accounts for these payments. As an employer, although it will increase administration, if there is a saving to be made, we will look for opportunities to pay pension payments in alternative ways. We covered that earlier, and the Minister gave a little reassurance that employer pension contributions may be acceptable and will not be counted as a salary sacrifice. As an employer, that would be welcome.

Employment Rights Bill

Debate between Lord de Clifford and Baroness Kramer

Committee stage
Tuesday 29th April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord de Clifford (CB)]

I rise in support of the gist of these amendments with regard to small businesses. I declare my interest as the owner of a medium-sized business with 130 employees, so it would not apply to me. But the burden on small businesses, certainly of Part 1, will seriously restrict their ability to grow and have the courage to take that step of employing people. I certainly think that micro-businesses should be exempted from a lot of these burdens. As we go through Part 1, we need to keep those micro-businesses in our thoughts.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, I am channelling the noble Lord, Lord Fox, who has been called away. He, on behalf of these Benches, cannot accept a two- tier workplace in regard to employment rights, which obviously form the content of this Bill, so we will not be supporting these amendments.