Poverty Premium

Lord Davies of Oldham Excerpts

Monday 10th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Davies of Oldham (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, both on securing this debate and on introducing it so precisely. As he identified, those dependent on cash are living in an increasingly disadvantageous world, and the use of cash has reduced very significantly over the last decade. The rate of decline, as new technologies are employed, will mean that quite a small proportion of the population will be dependent on cash. Those people are, however, dependent on a disadvantageous system, as was so clearly identified in this debate by the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, supported immediately by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, who pointed out just why the poor can be at such an obvious disadvantage. One obvious aspect is that direct debit has its rewards—we all know the incentives to choose it—but you need a regular income and certainty of payment before you can take advantage of it.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bottomley, emphasised the fact that we live in a society where unemployment figures are relatively low. The trouble, however, is that an awful lot of our fellow citizens are in employment but not under the old criteria—they are on zero-hours contracts, and a person with an uncertain income, on basic wages, can only be in a position of extreme disadvantage when making payments. The advantages of direct debit, of not having to pay excessively for credit and being able to access money easily are not available to those who are on uncertain incomes and poor.

That is why we need considerable action by the Government, as has been called for in this debate. It is comforting that the Government are at least aware of the problem and addressing certain aspects of the decreasingly cash-using society. Action will be necessary, and the Government are not shaping up to the requirements. The noble Lord, Lord Bird, emphasised with his usual accuracy and passion the extent to which people living on very low incomes are a burden on society to which society pays only lip service. If not, in an economy in which we are supposedly making so much progress, food banks would not be proliferating all over the country. Furthermore, some people with clear earning patterns are dependent on food banks, because their pay is below the necessary level of income.

That is why I think we have to do what the noble Lord, Lord Bird, identified. We have to take responsibility for getting people out of poverty. We have to address ourselves to crucial issues such as the question of the minimum wage, which needs to be at a level that guarantees that households can avoid poverty. We need to tackle the question of zero hours, and change our employment laws so that this particular malign development, which has occurred over the last decade in such profusion, is brought under control. We also need to tackle how benefits are paid. Universal credit seems to be engineered to guarantee that people are plunged into poverty in certain circumstances. It cannot be right that we have a benefit that renders people vulnerable at crucial times through the way in which it is paid.

This has been a stimulating debate, which has addressed the issue of the poor. We all ought to feel the greatest concern about that: we cannot constantly talk about an economy that is making progress when child poverty, and poverty generally in our society, is as pronounced as it is today.