Financial Services and Markets Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Davies of Brixton and Lord Mackinlay of Richborough

Committee stage
Monday 6th July 2026 Grand Committee

[Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab)]

The noble Lord makes a compelling case, but can he say what is meant by “facilitate” in the amendment?

[Lord Mackinlay of Richborough (Con)]

Facilitating means merely that any financial institution registered with the FCA in this country would have to use the IHT423 procedure—it could not say no. At the moment, we have a framework that is purely discretionary. In my professional life every single institution has always said yes, but obviously there are some out there which are saying no. So I want to put the facilitation not as a facilitation of choice but a facilitation of “must” on the request of an executor. There is no risk here. The risk is that either the funds remain in an investment account or they are in the account of HMRC, which, the last time I looked—despite my being a chartered tax adviser—is a safe place for people’s funds to be.

National Insurance Contributions (Employer Pensions Contributions) Bill

Debate between Lord Davies of Brixton and Lord Mackinlay of Richborough

Committee stage
Tuesday 24th February 2026 Grand Committee

[Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab)]

I accept the noble Lord’s reprimand. I was actually making another point, which is about how many ice-cream salespeople are operating salary sacrifice arrangements. That may not be immediately germane. In fact, the remarks that the noble Lord just made support my point. Those part-time employees and part-time employers are already having to cope with the problems that arise from multiple employments and how the national insurance system is not, in truth, tailored very well for those circumstances. I accept that.

[Lord Mackinlay of Richborough (Con)]

I would like to assist the noble Lord, Lord Davies, on multiple employments. For an employer faced with an employee with multiple employments, which is not uncommon, it has no reference at all to the individual employer—it is of no interest. An employer runs a payroll scheme only for the amounts that that employer pays that employee. If there is a second employment, it is for that employer to deal with how much they are paying that employee. There is no interaction between the employers to say, “Do a management of NIC”. This goes to the heart of the problem with Amendment 33.

There is only one example where an employer has to take any notice of multiple employment, which is when their employee may have a second employment that is above the ceiling for paying the maximal national insurance. That is where you have a system of form CA72A, which is supplied by the employee to the DWP. The DWP may not actually do anything about it; I have found in most cases in my professional career that the DWP seems to lose the paperwork and the employee has to make an after-year claim for the excessive NIC that has been deducted. That is the only example where the second employment may receive advice from the DWP to say, “Ah, only deduct 2% from this employee because they are paying maximal amounts on a primary employment”. I wanted to clarify the current situation across national insurance administration for double or triple employments. I hope that is of assistance.

[Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab)]

Yes; I thank the noble Lord for his advice. As I said, I have operated the system myself, and so he is really just making my point: the structures are there to deal with multiple employments. It is not being introduced to the issue by this particular measure. Obviously it would be more complicated with this measure—I accept that, and I look forward to my noble friend the Minister’s response on that issue—but it is not a new issue.