Conversion Therapy Prohibition (Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity) Bill [HL]

Lord Curry of Kirkharle Excerpts

Friday 9th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Curry of Kirkharle (CB)]

My Lords, it is a great honour to follow the noble Lord, Lord Hannan of Kingsclere. We have heard some painful stories this afternoon—it was very moving to hear the experience of the noble Lord, Lord Paddick— but we need to remember that, as the Minister for Women and Equalities said in the other place,

“we can tackle these issues with existing law”.—[Official Report, Commons, 30/11/22; col. 886.]

Advocates for a Bill against conversion therapy cite forced marriage, physical abuse, coercion, threats of physical violence and verbal abuse as some of the practices that need to be prevented. Thankfully, however, there are already laws on our statute book dealing with these things. As has been stated numerous times in the House today, the UK has an array of laws already in force that rightly prohibit genuinely reprehensible behaviour of the kind sometimes identified by advocates of new legislation. We do not need this Bill to deal with those things; we simply need to enforce the existing law.

Therefore, we need to ask what else the Bill seeks to address. My great concern is that what may be regarded as conversion therapy by advocates of the Bill is not abuse but the expression of certain opinions. Definition has been cited already as a major concern. The Church of England paper which we referred to earlier states that there is no clear or fully agreed definition. The Ban Conversion Therapy campaign includes controversial groups such as Mermaids and Stonewall. In one of its briefings, it calls for private prayer and casual conversations to be brought within the scope of the Bill. Could private prayer and casual conversations fall within the present Bill? I fear that they could. We could see innocent people criminalised for everyday conversations—not for brutalising people, not for some violent programme of brainwashing but simply for talking with other people.

We must not allow this to become a new speech crime, where those who are deemed to hold wrong opinions are prosecuted for mere words. It would be a disaster for free speech and religious freedom. The noble Baroness, Lady Burt of Solihull, was recently appointed as a patron of Humanists UK. I wonder whether she agrees with its response to the government consultation on banning conversion therapy, which says that a Bill must cover

“verbal communications … such as confessions/repentances”.

As has been stated, central to the Christian faith is the call for all people to turn to Christ for the forgiveness of their sins. This necessarily involves confession and repentance. As the noble Baroness, Lady Foster, has firmly stated, these are ongoing and necessary aspects of living the Christian life for millions of people in this country.

Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights protects freedom of religion and belief—not just the freedom to believe things in your head but to explain your beliefs to others and invite others to embrace them. It protects the freedom to change your religious beliefs and thousands do, every year. The freedom to repent protects what Christians call conversion, which is essential to the Christian experience. On that note, I am rather disturbed to see “conversion” used in the title of the Bill in such a negative sense. The experience of Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus was an amazing, positive experience and has been for millions since. Like the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, I am an enthusiast for conversion.

I had planned to reference what has been in place in Victoria, Australia, but the noble Lord, Lord Farmer, has very powerfully explained the risks of going down that route, as has the noble Baroness, Lady Meyer. Such a law would be wholly intolerant of Christians who hold orthodox convictions. Such beliefs may no longer be fashionable, but should it really be illegal to invoke them in your prayers?

Returning to what I said at the very beginning, the UK already has comprehensive laws against abuse and coercion. Victims should be helped to pursue justice within the current legal framework. New legislation in this area is not only unnecessary but, as has been said a number of times, dangerous, since it threatens to criminalise harmless behaviour.