NHS Winter Crisis

Debate between Lord Crisp and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Monday 8th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

I thank my noble friend. He is right to point out that there is variation across the country. He mentions Luton and Dunstable University Hospital. It has been a pioneer of how to make sure that people coming into A&E are properly dealt with. Indeed, the £100 million that was invested in A&E services to support better triaging was based on the Luton and Dunstable model. Obviously, we need to make sure that those high standards are replicated across the country.

I will give one further example of an area where that planning has taken place. We know that there has been pressure on ambulance services and that there has been a variability of performance there. There is now a national ambulance control centre which is keeping real-time data and looking at how to manage that performance so that we can get a proper national grip on this picture.

[Lord Crisp (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister acknowledge that 59,000 people a day going into A&E is an indicator that there simply is not enough support in the community? Can he give us any indication of how many people he thinks could have been prevented from going into A&E and causing these sorts of problems in hospitals if there were more support in the community, which would mean, for example, that people with infections were caught early and would not need to be admitted? Does he also note that a recent survey showed that one-fifth of the people in adult mental health hospitals were there simply because there was no provision for them in the community? That does not mean just social services; it means housing.

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

I thank the noble Lord for that point. He will have experienced a few of these difficult winters when he was running the NHS. It is difficult to say what number or proportion of those 58,000 or 59,000 people could have been treated in the community. We do know that the 111 service has been successful this year, with nearly 40% of calls involving a clinical opinion keeping people out of A&E, as has primary care. It is difficult to estimate, but we know that a number of people have been kept away. Of course, there is a growing and ageing population, and that is the underlying driver of demand. On mental health, the noble Lord is quite right. We have not done enough in mental health over many years, and that is one of the reasons that it has been a priority for the Prime Minister, with a big increase in the number of mental health staff in the years ahead.