Energy Bill
Debate between Lord Crickhowell and Lord Roper
Lord Crickhowell
My Lords, I have not intervened before now, on hearing this afternoon’s proceedings, but the reference to the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee has prompted me to get on my feet. I am a member of the Constitution Committee, which I think would agree with everything that has just been said about these clauses. Indeed, I am prompted to think that I must go back to the Constitution Committee and make sure that before this comes before the House at Report we will have had a look at the constitutional implications of the way in which this matter is being handled. So I have every sympathy with the points that have just been made.
I make a wider point. I have been quite astonished— although I have been a very long time in Parliament, in one House and the other—as I do not believe that I have ever seen a Bill come to this stage in its proceedings with so much information still unavailable; after all, it has been through the other place and been examined by countless committees. Indeed, if this Committee stage had been held on the Floor of the House, the Government would have been in deep trouble. In Grand Committee, we go along with it—we probe and press questions and so on—and say that we will bring things back at Report. The House as a whole would have been far more impatient with the Government about the way in which they have handled this matter.
If at times my noble friend the Minister finds there are interventions from both sides, including from the noble Baroness who speaks for the Opposition, she must not be entirely surprised. If the department has not yet addressed many of the issues that one would have expected it to address at this time or to have answers to and provide information to the Committee, it must not be surprised if it gets into trouble. Therefore, as we go through the final stages in Committee, my noble friend would be extremely wise to understand the feeling of irritation and frustration that is widespread in the Committee and temper her remarks accordingly. I am not suggesting that it is her fault; it is a nightmare for Ministers in this House who have to handle Bills of this sort, since many key issues are decided elsewhere and by others. But she must understand that, as a Committee, we face the most extraordinary difficulties. We do not know half the regulations that are going to appear; we have clauses such as this one, which give extraordinary powers; and the Committee is naturally suspicious.
I hope that, as we go further down the proceedings this afternoon, my noble friend will simply accept that the Committee is faced with serious difficulties and will be prepared to say, again and again, that she understands the concerns, will listen to them most carefully, and will be prepared to discuss them as widely as possible before getting to the next stage. I hope that she will try to avoid the sense of irritation and conflict that crept in at an earlier stage this afternoon.
Lord Roper
My Lords, I do not intend to delay the Committee unduly on this point, but I echo what has been said by the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, and my noble friend Lord Crickhowell. I have spoken before on the remarkably trenchant language which the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee used in its fifth report—and, in its sixth report, as we have heard from the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, it is still very concerned, particularly on the regulations on the capacity market that we are considering. Therefore, it is essential that we have detail of the regulations that are going to be introduced well before we come to Report.