Brexit: UK-Irish Relations

Lord Cotter Excerpts

Tuesday 5th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cotter (LD)]

My Lords, I follow many speakers, in particular the speaker who has just spoken, with concerns about what we should be doing. I am participating in this debate because of the key issue of Brexit to this country. The key element is undoubtedly the relationship between the UK and Ireland, so long established and much improved in recent years. As much as anything, I want to listen to the many speakers who have specific knowledge on the relationship.

To me, the issue of the border between the south and the north accentuates the whole issue of working co-operatively with people in this world of ours. Why am I concerned about the potential breakdown of relations between Ireland and the UK? It is because it is vital and productive for both nations to keep peace going, but also for me and many others it is that we need to perpetuate co-operation with people so close to us. Trade is important, but so is friendship.

Unlike many noble Lords, I do not have detailed views of the present complications and the complications that could arise, so I am listening and learning, but above all I portray myself as a member of the public who sees no negatives about the present close relationships with our neighbours in Ireland and elsewhere in Europe and in the world. We are seeing peace. I declare a specific interest in the Ireland issue. I have a UK passport but I can also have an Irish passport, thanks to my mother, who was born and brought up in County Tipperary in southern Ireland. The Governments of both countries can and should not find it difficult, as previous speakers have said, to find a way to maintain our beneficial relationship.

Localism Bill

Lord Cotter Excerpts

Tuesday 5th July 2011 Lords Chamber

These are the sorts of capricious outcomes that we will have. They are undesirable and a cause of confusion to charities, as seen in this narrow example, and you will have a much wider application in the concerns of this Bill. We need to avoid this sort of situation when it comes to establishing assets of community value. The definition in the Bill would be a good place to start.

[Lord Cotter]

My Lords, first, I thank the Minister for her comments. There is no question that I and many noble Lords engaged in the Bill, as well as those outside this Chamber, support the intention to support local communities by giving them a chance to have their say. This amendment has a particular point to make on behalf of businesses. It is designed to ensure that no private assets are put on the list. The fear is that, once a private asset is put on the list, it possibly will have an effect on the market value and thus make it more difficult to sell. That would be very discouraging and could tangibly affect not only the business people but the community as well, and have a negative impact on both the community and the owner of the business.

Local people might wish to list a very much appreciated local shop for fear that the owner might sell it on for use as flats or offices and deny the community a valuable asset. People could be overzealous perhaps in what goes on the list—I will be very interested to know what the Minister thinks of this—and will try to protect their much valued shop in this case. Of course, it can have a counterproductive effect on future businesses and they may feel that they could have, if you like, the rug taken from under them. I hope the Minister can understand what I am saying and can respond to this concern. The idea is to maintain the many things people would like to have in the community but at the same time to protect the property owner because the market value could be adversely affected.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I want to speak to Amendment 136ZD in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Cathcart. My noble friend the Minister is aware that I raised reservations at Second Reading about this part of the Bill and the unintended consequences affecting private owners who allow their property to be used for community use. I thank my noble friend for her explanation earlier because it starts to clarify the intentions. However, the intention of this amendment is to provide greater clarity and also thereby allay justified concerns with a definition of an asset of community value and to provide clear guidance to local authorities, which is essential if we are to avoid confusion and unnecessary legal action which could be the case if we do not get this definition right.

I also think that we should strengthen the tests which have to be met in relation to nominations for the community asset register. We should firm up and define what is intended by community value. The primary requirement in all cases should be that assets of community value must promote social well-being through their past or current use. There should also be a secondary requirement, where local authorities consider it appropriate, of furthering the economic and environmental well-being of the community.

The amendment sets out the various factors that local authorities must take into account: current use; planning policies that affect the asset, which could include planning permissions already in place; what the nominator is proposing to use the asset for; evidence of wider support for the nominator’s proposals within the community; where there may be another site in the locality which could serve the same purpose. I think very much of the local library that might be closing but another publically owned property could be used for that purpose.

However, in accepting that exclusions from the listing will need to be in the regulations rather than in the Bill, the key one is that most residential premises must be excluded from listing. I say most because I can understand the asset where there is a pub where the living accommodation is secondary to the purpose. I am persuaded that village shops, post offices and pubs should be assets, which if communities wish to bid, they should be in a position to do so.

There are so many examples of private individuals enabling communities to use part of their residential premises and it is essential that the regulations make it absolutely clear that these premises are not included. I therefore hope that my noble friend the Minister will give this amendment due consideration and bring back on Report a comprehensive amendment on the definition of an asset of community value. As far as I am concerned the test will be that private owners will not in any way be advised that it would not be sensible for them to continue to allow their assets to be used by the community. If we do not get this right the net effect will be negative whereas what we are seeking to do is a positive thing for many communities.