Corporate Insolvency and Governance Bill

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 16th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees]

I now call the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty. No? I call the noble Lord, Lord Cormack.

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, today’s proceedings have illustrated how impossible it is for a virtual or a hybrid House to hold the Government adequately to account. I ask those who arrange our proceedings to ensure that time is fairly and evenly distributed. We started with no time limits on speeches, and we are now having to gallop through a great many important issues.

I give my total support to what my noble friend Lady Anelay said on her Amendment 143. These charities include some of the most notable in the country, and many of them are connected with heritage and the arts, which is why I was anxious to give my support. It really is crucial, especially when the Bill has not had any real scrutiny in the other place, that adequate time is given to consider the vital points that have been made in this very wide-ranging group of amendments. I would like to go on at much greater length but, in deference to others, I will not. However, I repeat my strong support for my noble friend Lady Anelay.

Economy: Purchasing Managers’ Index

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Thursday 11th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

It is absolutely true that there are challenges in the services sector, which is crucially important to us. That is why a lot of the uncertainty that I referred to earlier, in my answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, needs to be resolved. We believe that there is sufficient capacity and demand within the economy to build that up. We know that people are sitting on a lot of cash at the moment and that there are a lot of vacancies out there at the moment—850,000 of them—which shows that there is a lot of demand waiting to go once we have resolved this matter.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Would my noble friend agree that there is nothing more debilitating and corroding than uncertainty? Would he agree that a deal needs to be reached, but both Houses of Parliament have a deal before them—which is being resisted by the extremes who, in their desire for a Brexit that would ignore the 48%, may lose Brexit altogether?

[Lord Bates]

I agree that the uncertainty needs to end. However, the message from the numbers, which my noble friend Lord Borwick began by mentioning, is that whatever the difficulties we have as politicians in resolving the matters before us, men and women out there who are setting up and running businesses, and workers in those businesses, are doing an incredible job at building exports to almost record levels. We have a great deal of confidence in them to continue what they are doing; we must do what we should do.

National Insurance Contributions Holiday

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Wednesday 27th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

I thought I said in my Answer that we are committed to delivering the manifesto commitments. The noble Lord talks about manifestos, but I do not want to remind him of his party’s commitments on student debt, which did not seem to survive the election campaign. The reality is that we are significantly increasing employment: employment is at record levels and unemployment is at a historic low; more young people are in work; and the rate of youth unemployment has been halved. These are all steps in the right direction.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that our manifestos—this applies to all parties—are far too long? Would it not be a very good thing if, in future, they were limited to far fewer than 54 pages? Would not four suffice?

[Lord Bates]

I am sorry to disappoint my noble friend, but page 54 was not the end of the manifesto—you had to keep reading for a little longer. However, I totally agree with his sentiments.

Brexit: Economic Effects

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Wednesday 21st November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

Talking to the British Chambers of Commerce, CBI and all the business organisations, I find that the one thing they all want is for a deal to be done. They want certainty. They want to understand where they are so that they can continue to trade and move forward. That is what the Prime Minister has put before us, that is what the Cabinet has agreed, and that is what we hope will be agreed at the European Council next week. That is the best way forward for Britain, and it is the best way forward for business.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, if we want clarity and certainty, all that a so-called people’s vote can do is prolong the agony, deepen the division and make it far more difficult to come to a sensible conclusion.

[Lord Bates]

I agree wholeheartedly with my noble friend.

India: Scavenging

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Tuesday 6th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

It is making a big difference. I am certainly aware of these cases, because the noble Lord has made me aware of them, and I am grateful to him for that. We are looking at them and following up. The reality is that both Pakistan and India are signatories to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. That has some very specific language in Article 18, which talks about recognising that all people are equal and that discrimination is against the law. It is also against their constitutions. We need to work with the Governments of these countries to ensure that they uphold the very laws they have—and we will continue to do that.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, yesterday the House was reminded of the immense contribution from the Indian subcontinent in the war that ended 100 years ago on Sunday. Would it not be entirely appropriate to rescue these people who are mired in filth by taking a new initiative to mark the centenary of the end of the First World War?

[Lord Bates]

It is an interesting point. I attended, perhaps with the noble Lord, a lecture here last week on that contribution. I think that something like 1.3 million people were involved and 74,000 lost their lives. We remain open to whether further work needs to be done. I would be very happy to engage in a dialogue with noble Lords who have an interest in this area to see what shape that could take.

EU Travel: Insurance

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Thursday 1st November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

I completely reject that. Many people look forward to their holidays. I am sure that next summer’s holiday will be one particularly enjoyed by those on our Front Bench. We want to take advantage of the wonderful holiday opportunities that there are in the European Union, we expect that to continue and believe that it will.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, before scare- mongering, should not the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, realise that too many visitors to his lovely Isles of Scilly would ruin them?

[Lord Bates]

The point I was making in answer to an earlier question was that while 50 million from the UK travel on non-business flights abroad, 20 million come here. We want those good trading, friendship and family relationships to continue unhindered after Brexit day. That is why we are putting in place the technical notices, have put forward proposals and are bringing forward legislation.

Online Marketplaces: VAT Evasion

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Monday 22nd October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

That is right, which is why we require those establishments to register.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend think that Sir Nicholas Clegg may have some spare time to devote to this?

[Lord Bates]

I do not know whether he is domiciled in the UK any longer.

Syria-Jordan Border: Rukban Camp

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Tuesday 16th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

We are certainly supportive of the fact that the only real solution is for there to be a lasting political discussion. That is why we are putting so much energy into the Syria support group process in Geneva and at the UN. I accept that. There is a particular challenge faced by the effects of Daesh and it was right that the UK played its role as part of the international coalition seeking to drive it out of its bases in Syria.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend not reflect on what the noble Lord, Lord West, just said? Time and again in this House, some of us have urged on Ministers the need for a diplomatic presence in Syria. It is completely wrong for us not to have that. We decided not to interfere in the civil war at the beginning but nevertheless derecognise the regime, thus reducing any influence that we might have had. Can we now try to regain some of that influence?

[Lord Bates]

I am afraid that I do not have what my noble friend would regard as a satisfactory answer on the latest situation in these matters. For some time now, diplomatic representations have been based in Beirut rather than Damascus, the status of which is of course dependent on future negotiations through the UN Security Council and discussions with our colleagues in government.

Brexit: Financial Settlement

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Monday 13th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

She has a grip. That grip was demonstrated in her Florence speech, where she set out our negotiating position, which is very strong and fair. Any settlement would of course be denominated in euros as the currency—we recognise that—but that, too, needs to be taken into account as we agree what the final settlement should be as part of the wider negotiations.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister may well have a grip. That is good, but some of us are absolutely fed up to the back teeth of reading, as we did this morning, of two Cabinet Ministers publishing their attack on a third. This is appalling, and something up with which she should not put.

[Lord Bates]

I think my noble friend would recognise that there can be full and frank negotiations in Cabinet between colleagues.

Overseas Development

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Wednesday 1st November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

As the noble Lord knows, those contributions are germane because they are very much part of the exit negotiations. We make a substantial contribution and our European colleagues are keen to retain a close relationship with the UK in respect of these things. We therefore want to work closely with them on these matters to see whether that is possible. At the moment, the EDF, to which I referred, is available only to member states, so there would also have to be changes on their side for us to continue.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, is not the unfortunate logic of the noble Baroness who spoke from the Liberal Benches that in your anxiety to deprive the rich, you are prepared to further impoverish the poor?

[Lord Bates]

You could construe it in that way, but another, perhaps a little more generous interpretation, would be to look at the case of the BVI. Its population is about 28,000. We follow GNI limits, which are $12,754 for graduating. One billionaire can make a profound distortion to the noted wealth of that country. In the BVI there are some very poor and needy people who lack the resources to rebuild their communities. We are committed to them not only because they are overseas territories but because of our humanitarian commitment.

Public Sector Pay Cap

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Wednesday 5th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

On that specific point, the Institute for Fiscal Studies has reported that public sector workers earn on average 13% more than those in the private sector. Secondly—this is very important—the purpose of the pay review body is to make sure that we continue to attract people into the public services and deal with employment. That is why it is interesting and helpful to note that a public sector pay review body has said:

“We do not see significant short-term nationwide recruitment and retention issues that are linked to pay”.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, as one who has from time to time found himself at odds with government policy, will my noble friend tell his colleagues in the Cabinet that we do not expect them to have their debates in public?

[Lord Bates]

I was just about to say that was above my pay grade and then I realised that was probably not the right term to use. The Chancellor set out the policy on public pay in the Budget. That continues to be the case. We listen very carefully to what the review bodies say and watch very carefully to see the impact that has on recruitment. That policy will continue.

Iraq: Displaced Minority Communities

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Thursday 9th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

Yes, I totally agree with that. A coalition of some 68 countries was involved, but a very important aspect, of course, is that the legitimate Government of Iraq are in the lead, and we are working with them. The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs is taking the lead on the humanitarian response, and we work through those agencies very effectively to ensure that co-ordination is happening. One reason why it is taking so long is that past lessons learned tell us of the immense dangers to civilians, 750,000 of whom are still trapped in Mosul. We need to ensure they are protected and cared for as this military effort is prosecuted.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that this is a particularly appropriate moment for us to pay tribute to all those gave service—both in Iraq and Afghanistan—because this morning the Queen is unveiling a memorial to all those who have served?

[Lord Bates]

It is absolutely right that we should do that and recognise the 226 British service personnel who gave their lives to build a better Iraq and, of course, the 43 British civilians who also died in that effort. We recognise and pay tribute to their sacrifice today.

Brussels Terrorist Attacks

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Wednesday 23rd March 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

The noble and right reverend Lord is absolutely right. Of course, these meetings will be ongoing. I know, from having an office next door to the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, that he has a constant flow of visitors and meetings and a very full diary of engagements. This needs to continue and be developed. It is not something that just comes down from government; it also needs to come up from within the faith communities themselves. Some of the most effective means of countering these ideologies are ones that do not have a government fingerprint anywhere on them but come from within communities. We must all encourage more of this going forward.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend said that the Prime Minister attended a meeting of COBRA this morning. Bearing in mind the tremendous importance of sharing information, is there not a case for a European equivalent? Nobody should attempt to bring these desperately serious issues into the European referendum debate. However, should we not recognise that, if there is a change on 23 June, although it is crucial that co-operation should continue, its context would be altered?

[Lord Bates]

That may be so. What I said in repeating the Statement was that we have the counterterrorism group, which is a very important part of sharing intelligence across EU member states. The headquarters of NATO are also in Belgium. NATO plays an important part in our security because it includes Turkey, which is crucial in the fight against Daesh.

Calais: Child Refugees

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Monday 29th February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

On the point about family reunion, the French Government are supporting some NGOs that are operating in that area and doing important work in the camps, ensuring that people get access to the type of advice they need. We will make sure that that work continues. The NGOs want to do the right thing. The Government want to do the right thing, both here in the UK and in France. That is why the relationship is so important and why we are working so closely together to ensure that children and families are reunited as soon as possible.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, how many of these children are under the age of 16 and do we have satisfactory reception facilities of a temporary nature before they are reunited with any family members?

[Lord Bates]

I am grateful to my noble friend for that question. I can tell him that 62% of unaccompanied asylum-seeking children were 16 or 17; 26% were 14 or 15; and 8% were under 14. Of course, in this country the obligations under the Children Act mean that anyone aged under 18 will be taken into local authority care as a result of those duties.

Litvinenko Inquiry

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Thursday 21st January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

References to that engagement in Mr Litvinenko’s background in Chechnya are contained in a report, which makes very interesting reading. The noble Lord asked about the UN Security Council. There are issues that could be addressed through that forum, but the fact that Russia is a permanent member of it makes some of the discussions that need to be had a little more difficult. However, we have said that the European Union plays a crucial part in our security here, and we have made it clear that NATO also plays a very important part, as do the Council of Europe and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe. We need to get the message out that this is unacceptable and to communicate that as widely as possible.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend has rightly paid tribute to the courage and dignity of the widow and the bereaved son. Can he give the House an assurance that he is utterly confident of their security in this country and of their financial security for the future?

[Lord Bates]

That is a very good point, and it is characteristic of my noble friend to focus on the humanitarian aspects of this matter. I do not have a sufficient understanding of the situation but I give an undertaking to ensure that it is on the agenda when the Home Secretary meets Marina and Anatoly Litvinenko to make sure that any personal needs they have are met.

Surveillance Legislation

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Thursday 16th July 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

That is a fair point. We have been around this track several times before. The Joint Committee chaired by my noble friend Lord Blencathra looked at the communications data Bill and did a very thorough piece of work. We then had the Intelligence and Security Committee report and the Anderson review, which took more than a year to complete. We then had the RUSI review. People are coming together towards a consensus, which should mean that the passage of the Bill, as a result of the diligent work that has gone on before, should be smoother and quicker and therefore we can get the powers to the security agencies that they need to keep us safe.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, when the Bill is debated and the papers are produced, could we also have a paper detailing so far as possible the infinite damage caused by the refugee in the Ecuadorian embassy and Edward Snowden?

[Lord Bates]

I do not know whether they will be directly linked in the same package, but of course it is open to us to reflect on that. The reality is that our security services do an incredibly important job in keeping us safe against a threat that is getting more severe, as we have seen not only in this country but also overseas in recent weeks.

ISIL

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Thursday 2nd July 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

Clearly, it is the defeat of the poisonous ideology behind these attacks. On the territorial point, the noble Lord will be aware of our activities in the airstrikes. The RAF has flown 1,010 missions in support of the coalition activity in Iraq. The result of that is that ISIL’s advance has been stopped, and it has lost, according to American sources, some 700 square kilometres of land. Clearly, the point about Syria is pressing. We are providing some training and support there. The Prime Minister said on Monday that there must be a “full-spectrum response” to deal with ISIL,

“at its source, in places like Syria, Iraq and Libya”.

British aircraft are delivering the second-highest number of airstrikes over Iraq. Our surveillance aircraft are already assisting other countries with their operations over Syria and British forces are helping to train the moderate Syrian opposition. That is our response, but we are in no doubt whatever as to what the task is: to defeat ISIL.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend share my sense of incredulity at the reported comments of the director-general of the BBC, who says that the BBC should remain neutral between Islamic State and the West? Is not this an utterly incomprehensible statement? Did the BBC remain neutral when we faced the Nazi threat? Is not this threat, in its way, as vicious and as evil?

[Lord Bates]

As a Conservative politician, I am on sensitive ground here in being invited to remark on the BBC and feelings of incredulity. This is the serious point behind the Prevent strategy: if ISIL is to be defeated, it requires everyone to speak up for what British values are, to stand firm for them and to speak out against those who seek to undermine them.

International Students: Post-study Visa

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Wednesday 1st July 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Will my noble friend reflect for a moment and consider the wisdom of putting in writing for every higher education institution what he said to this House this afternoon, so that all potential graduates know what the position will truly be when they graduate?

[Lord Bates]

Obviously my ministerial colleague has responsibility for universities within BIS. I will certainly talk with him, and also with my honourable friend at the Home Office, James Brokenshire, who has responsibility for this area there, and see if we can do just that.

Child Abuse Inquiry

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Thursday 22nd January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

We opened this up after the initial appointments of the two chairmen because they did not command confidence. Some people have responded and come forward directly, while a number of representations have been made on behalf of others by Members of your Lordships’ House. We wanted to broaden the net as widely as possible so as to allow people to come forward, and then of course to go through the due diligence aspect of their backgrounds to ensure an appropriate shortlist. Then, most crucially, before the shortlist is made public, the first people to see it will be the survivors’ groups themselves to ensure that we have their confidence in the individuals concerned.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend accept that many of us feel that it was little short of a tragedy that the Home Secretary’s first nomination was not able to continue as chairman? Further, would he bear in mind the importance of the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick? Will he also reflect on the Saville inquiry, which went on and on? It is crucial that the remit is clearly defined, not unending in its scope, and that a report is published within a reasonable time.

[Lord Bates]

I am happy to endorse the views of my noble friend about the previous nominees, who were both genuinely outstanding candidates. That is still our belief. On the approach going forward, we want a system of regular reporting retained in the methodology. Rather than an ongoing inquiry delivering at some point in the future, there will be interim reports. The initial inquiry suggested that there would be a report after six months, but I hope that there will be regular opportunities to produce reports, and that those reports will provide opportunities for noble Lords to discuss and debate the evidence received to date.

Police: Funding

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Bates

Wednesday 17th December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the comments by the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, what plans they have for the funding of policing over the next five years.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, the provisional police grant report to be published shortly sets out the Government’s decisions on police funding for 2015-16. No decisions have yet been taken on police funding beyond March 2016. However, as the police have shown categorically under this Government, it is possible to deliver lower crime while reducing budgets.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer and congratulate him on his Dispatch Box manner, which has been exemplary since he became a Minister. However, does he not realise that there is very real concern in the country—not least in Lincolnshire, where the chief constable made a similar statement to Sir Bernard’s just a week before him? Is my noble friend confident that, apart from anything else, we will be able to continue to recruit candidates in the right number and of the right quality, because public confidence in the police service is being somewhat damaged by these statements?