Northern Ireland (Ministerial Appointments and Regional Rates) Bill

Lord Cormack Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 26th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I shall speak briefly in the gap for two reasons. First, it is important that there should be voices from other parts of the United Kingdom to this integral part of our United Kingdom. With the exception of that of my noble friend Lord Lexden, all the extremely well-informed speeches have come from Members from Northern Ireland. That is right and proper, but let them understand that those in the rest of the kingdom are as concerned as they are at the future of this glorious part of our country.

The second reason why I seek to speak is that I had the honour, for the whole of the 2005 Parliament, of chairing the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee in another place. I saw at first hand the development of something truly remarkable—a power-sharing Executive with the late Lord Bannside, Ian Paisley, and Martin McGuinness together. I shall never forget the meetings, particularly with Ian Paisley, when he took that extraordinarily brave step.

On 2 March, the people of Northern Ireland voted, hoping, as the noble Lord, Lord Empey, said, to be voting for an Assembly from which an Executive would emerge. The last thing that the people of Northern Ireland want or need is yet another election after 8 June—but, of course, the worst thing that could possibly happen would be the imposition force majeure of direct rule. We have to do everything possible and use all our ingenuity to ensure that that does not happen.

You do not have to be a mathematician to realise that 29 June is only three weeks after 8 June, and I hope that the Secretary of State, who has had the opportunity to listen to much of this debate, and my noble friend on the Front Bench, will take into account the very sensible and imaginative suggestions made by the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, and my noble friend Lord Trimble during this debate. I hope that they will think, too, of the fundamental point made by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, in talking about parliamentary oversight. It is a gap—and whether it is via Select Committee, or an adjudicating panel of your Lordships and the other place, there are many ways in which this can be done. We should all turn our minds to them, but what must not happen is that we go back to direct rule or have another wholly unnecessary election in Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland: Political Developments

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 28th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

We have been able to create this window of opportunity, but it is only a window. This cannot drag on indefinitely, for the reasons that I have said. Decisions need to be taken about the budget and the allocation of the budget. As the Statement says, there is a need to set a regional rate and that binds the time period in which we are operating.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, while I accept up to a point what my noble friend has said, having seen it at first hand, can I stress that a prime ministerial presence in Belfast can be of enormous importance in bringing the parties together? I was shocked by what the noble Lord, Lord Empey, said about the parties not having been brought together. Could not the Prime Minister be urged to invite all the relevant parties to Hillsborough? If we do not get this right, it could be a disaster for the union.

[Lord Dunlop]

I understand what the noble Lord, Lord Empey, said. It is a matter of fact that there have been round-table discussions on issues like the Programme for Government and budget setting which were chaired by the head of the Northern Ireland Civil Service. As regards the process going forward, that is something which my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is actively exploring with the parties and no doubt he will make further statements on that.

Sky and 21st Century Fox: Proposed Merger

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 6th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to the noble Lord. I should make it clear that what the Secretary of State issued is a letter that states that she is minded to intervene: no decision has yet been made and none will be made until she has had the opportunity to consider responses to it over the next 10 days.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Will the Secretary of State bear in mind that monopoly is always inimical to freedom?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I have no doubt that the Secretary of State will have that point in mind in more than one context.

Prisons: Staff

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

As the noble Lord acknowledged, we have taken steps to improve the rate of recruitment in the south-east, and London in particular, by introducing a range of financial incentives. That is because in these areas there is considerable employment competition. That does not apply to the same extent in the north-east and north-west. Indeed, application rates in that part of the country are considerably higher than they are in the other parts of the country. Accordingly, it is not anticipated that these incentives, directed to particular areas where there are difficulties of recruitment, will have an adverse impact elsewhere.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, should we not look again at the whole question of private prisons? There are many people who feel that the incarceration and looking after of prisoners is the duty of the state and should not be farmed out?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to my noble friend. The state has many duties and obligations, many of which are successfully contracted out to independent contractors, as they are in the case of prisons.

Arbitration and Mediation Services (Equality) Bill [HL]

Lord Cormack Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 27th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted to be able to follow the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, who is sitting in a new place. I know that he will bring enormous distinction to the Cross Benches. I also join in the many tributes to the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, who is a dogged, determined, persistent fighter who could adopt as her motto that of my dear friend Tam Dalyell, who died only yesterday: “the importance of being awkward”. My noble friend is never put off by a brush-off from the Front Bench. Yesterday, I was delighted to see that the Foreign Secretary is beginning to heed some of her wise words on Syria. I very much hope that my noble and learned friend Lord Keen of Elie, who is doing a double stint on the Front Bench today, will be welcoming, positive and fully understanding of the importance of the points made on the Bill when he responds.

Less than 48 hours ago, your Lordships’ House had an interesting short debate on the Higher Education Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, moved an amendment drawing attention to the fact that the student loan system is a barrier to Muslim students attending our universities. He spoke with great eloquence and I was delighted to be able to support him, briefly, as I had on previous occasions. The Government share our recognition of this, because the only subject of real debate on Wednesday was the timing of when a new system would be brought in to help Muslim students by enabling them to feel that they were not transgressing their moral principles. That was entirely defensible, right and proper. It was not a question of sharia law overriding the law of the land. Rather, we were recognising—as we do with the religious feelings of other faiths—that there are certain things that people should be allowed to do. But what they should not be allowed to do is transgress the law of the land, which treats every citizen of this country as equal.

As other noble Lords have said, the noble Baroness, Lady Donaghy, with all her experience of ACAS, made a very cogent speech. I believe very strongly in citizenship ceremonies—I have attended one. I hope the noble Baroness would agree that it would be a very good thing if all those becoming British citizens were given a little document which said: this is your law, these are your rights and these are your responsibilities. This is what we are saying today to our Muslim fellow citizens: to the women, these are your rights; and to the men, these are your responsibilities. The law of our land does not allow you to take four wives or to dismiss a wife merely because you want to. The law of the land gives to every woman who enters into a marital relationship fundamental rights that are the equivalent of those enjoyed by every other woman in this country, regardless of religion, ethnicity or racial background.

There was an interjection earlier from a noble Baroness—whose name escapes me for the moment—asking whether the Government believed in equality under the law: of course they do. But if they do, they must, when my noble and learned friend responds to this morning’s debate, show that they do not just believe but that they practise. Setting up commissions and committees is sometimes an extremely good idea and is often a necessary preliminary to legislation—but we have pushed this into the long grass for far too long. There are women in our land today who are suffering; they are being ostracised from their own communities, and that is not acceptable. If someone is a British citizen, he or she has all the rights and duties of a British citizen. That, in effect, is all that this Bill seeks to say, and I very much hope that it will be enacted.

This House is deeply in debt to the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, who is a doughty fighter and a wonderfully persistent person. I hope that she will carry on being a thorn in the side of government, where necessary, for as long as she is here—and may that be a very long time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Keen of Elie]

There are, of course, provisions already in respect of that. We do not propose to do nothing, as I seek and have sought to explain.

As I said, our reservations about the Bill remain. It would be unfortunate for the Government to rush into any legislative change that did not, in the end, turn around the experience of the women whom the noble Baroness seeks to champion.

[Lord Cormack]

A few moments ago my noble and learned friend gave us a variation on “l’etat c’est moi”. Having listened to the debate, which I trust he has, and having heard persuasive speeches from all parts of the House, will he at least, in his capacity as the Government, which he has proclaimed to us all, agree to meet all of us who have spoken in the debate and have further discussions?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am perfectly prepared, as I represent the Government at the Dispatch Box, to take forward further discussions on this matter. Those discussions could most constructively be held once we have the sharia review available and once we have our response to the Casey report in the spring. The noble Lord might want to contemplate further discussion in that context. We are not seeking to delay; we are seeking to get this right.

We have not left the matter there, either. I do not wish to detract from the immediate focus of today’s debate, but there are other areas in which we are taking matters forward. Many noble Lords have spoken on the issues of understanding, of education and of the appreciation of rights which underpin many of the difficulties that Muslim women face in the context of sharia councils. We are now spending substantial amounts each year on assisting people to integrate into our society, particularly by arranging for the teaching of English. That is but one step, I appreciate—but it is a step in the right direction.

Turning again to the issue of unregistered religious marriage that underlies much of the recourse that women have to sharia councils, I note that there is no consensus on the issue—or, indeed, on sharia councils themselves—even among Muslim women’s groups. Several divergent suggestions have been put forward on the matter of marriage. One, for example, suggests regarding Islamic marriages as void, so that parties can seek financial remedies. Another suggests requiring religious ceremonies to be preceded by a civil ceremony, as in some other jurisdictions. The Casey report emphasised the importance of registration of marriage. All these issues will have to be considered.

The noble Baroness, Lady Cox, moved an amendment a few months ago in Committee on the Policing and Crime Bill. It required celebrants of religious marriages to comply with marriage law and to register the marriage, as well as introducing a criminal offence of failing to meet the requirements. However, as my noble friend Lady Chisholm said in the debate, it is unclear how many unregistered marriages would continue. Marriage is not a straightforward area of law, as these divergent suggestions show, and particular difficulties arise when women are unaware that their marriage has no legal effect.

My noble friend indicated that the Government will consider unregistered religious marriages in light of the sharia review which is expected to report this year. That remains the case. It is clear from Dame Louise Casey’s report that integration, education and understanding are significant in how we address the issues we have been debating today—many noble Lords acknowledged that. We await the Government’s response to the report so that we can take this matter forward.

I turn to particular points made by noble Lords in the debate. The noble Baroness, Lady Donaghy, referred to the continuing fight for women’s equality. I do not intend to engage in a fight with the noble and doughty Baroness, but I see women’s equality—indeed, all aspects of equality—as more than just a goal: it is a journey. As any wise traveller knows, when you are on a journey you constantly and regularly check your progress, your destination and the obstacles in your way. The spikier parts of inequality have been addressed, but the issue has not been resolved, and it will be a continuing journey.

On the question of the independent review, I indicated that that will report this year. As for the Law Commission, we are considering its report in conjunction with that of Dame Louise Casey. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern, among many noble Lords, referred to the subtle pressures that are brought to bear on women in the present context and the need to identify the reality of consent. Again, that goes back to the theme of education and understanding, rather than sharp-end legislation. The noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Carey of Clifton, talked about the need for sharia courts to comply with civil law. I do not even recognise the concept of a sharia court, but I take him to refer to sharia councils—and, yes, they are bound by the rule of law, and the law is there to correct abuse.

The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, assured us that he agreed with himself—I am sure we all take comfort from that. He talked about the judiciary making women aware of what their rights are. Yes, that is important, but it should be more than just the judiciary: we should all be making an effort, whether it be central government, local government, social services or police forces, to make women aware of their true rights and what their families’ true obligations amount to.

The noble Lord, Lord Carlile of Berriew, whom I was pleased to hear from behind me—if perhaps a little too far to the right—also talked about the need to intervene in circumstances where there is an abuse of alternative dispute resolution. Such alternative dispute resolution, as many noble Lords said, is to be welcomed, but it must operate within the law, and we must make that clear.

A question was raised about the extent, if any, of central government funding to sharia courts. Again, I say that I do not recognise the existence of sharia courts. I am not aware of UK government funding to sharia councils. It is possible that there is funding for particular projects carried out by such councils. Although I do not have such details to hand, I undertake to write to my noble friend Lord Bridgeman to confirm such details as we have of any alleged UK funding for sharia councils.

Finally, the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, spoke of all those rights that we enjoy, or that we are at least entitled to enjoy, within the United Kingdom. But those rights also include the right to religious freedom. That is why it is so important to ensure that we do not upset a delicate balance between rights and obligations. That is why the Government will look at this matter with great care in light of the sharia review, the Casey report and the recommendations of the Law Commission.

Northern Ireland Assembly Election

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

I thank the noble Baroness. As I said in answer to a previous question, we obviously recognise the tensions that have existed and have led to a breakdown in the relationship between the main governing parties in the Executive. There are noble Lords in this House who are more experienced than I in the workings of Northern Ireland, and there have been many occasions when the parties there have faced what seemed to be insuperable challenges yet they overcame those challenges and found a way forward despite them. That is what the people of Northern Ireland now expect. It is for their political leaders to show leadership and work through the many difficult issues that need to be worked through so that we can achieve what everybody in the community in Northern Ireland wants: the continuation of strong and stable devolved institutions.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, it is impossible to exaggerate the gravity of the situation. The Secretary of State clearly cannot become involved in an election campaign, but can my noble friend assure me that he will be available throughout, in Northern Ireland, to consult with the individual parties contesting the election? I hope that my noble friend will agree that everything possible must be done before election day, to try to ensure that that very short period of three weeks results in another power-sharing Executive and not in another dissolution, another election and the imposition of direct rule.

Northern Ireland: Political Developments

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 10th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

I thank my noble friend. As I said, obviously there has been close contact with the Irish Foreign Minister—but, as he rightly points out, we need to respect the constitutional proprieties, and the constitutional position of Northern Ireland is clearly set out in the Belfast agreement. As for the timing, there is a seven-day period, after which the Secretary of State is obliged to call an election. There is no specified time period for that, but he has to do so within a “reasonable” period of time. Tonight it would be premature to speculate on a specific date.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, as one who was chairman of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee throughout the 2005 Parliament, working closely with the noble Lord, Lord Hain, and his successor, one thing that impressed me enormously was the priority and time given by Prime Minister Blair and Prime Minister Brown. They frequently paid tribute to the wonderful spadework of Sir John Major.

This should now be at the top of the parliamentary agenda in the United Kingdom. The Prime Minister should be involved. I was often in the company of the late Lord Bannside, Ian Paisley, and sometimes in the company of Mr McGuinness. I am sorry that he is so ill at the moment. We should appeal to him as well to play a part in getting everyone together. Will my noble friend convey to the Prime Minister that many of us in this House feel that she would be neglecting no duty in putting this at the top of her agenda for the immediate future? She should go to Northern Ireland and sit down with the political leaders there and explain to them what priority we attach to continuing what has been a very remarkable decade since 2007. I appeal to my noble friend to convey those sentiments to the Prime Minister.

[Lord Dunlop]

Certainly, the sentiments of this House will be heard loud and clear. I hope that it is clear from the Statement that I have repeated today the gravity and seriousness that the Government attach to these matters and therefore the priority that we will give to them. In the discussions that the Secretary of State will have, he will obviously explore all avenues to see what might be helpful in resolving the current situation. We must not rule anything out in trying to seek that resolution.

Serious Disturbance at HM Prison Birmingham

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

There is no requirement at this time to call upon outside bodies to assist with the maintenance of order within our prisons. That has been dealt with not only by prison staff in general but by the specialist Tornado groups that were called in and resolved the issue at Birmingham. However, in this context, as part of our recruitment programme we are looking to recruit former members of the Armed Forces who have particular training, service and expertise in areas that can come to bear upon the control of prison populations.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, could the inquiry look carefully at the role of G4S and other private contractors? There are many of us who feel that the incarceration of our fellow citizens should be the responsibility of the state and should never be contracted out. As this has occurred in such a prison, can this form a central point of the inquiry?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to my noble friend. As I indicated earlier, all recent published data show that there are no obvious differences in performance levels between public and private prisons. We therefore consider that we should continue with our endeavour of ensuring that the prison estate can be controlled and provided across both the public and private sectors.

Scottish Government: Welfare

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

I certainly think that the realities of devolving welfare powers put into context the assertion of the then First Minister of Scotland, who said that an independent Scottish state could be established within 18 months. We have seen some of the domestic policy record; two weeks ago, we learned that Scotland’s schools had recorded their worst ever performance in PISA tests since those were set up in the year 2000. This underlines why the Scottish Government should perhaps spend less time searching for new reasons to hold another independence referendum and more time on the day job.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, have they not proved that you cannot fill a void with a vacuum?

[Lord Dunlop]

I am inclined to agree with my noble friend.

Judiciary: Independence

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

The Lord Chancellor is well aware of her obligations in terms of Section 3 of the Act and has addressed those obligations. It was not appropriate that she should give a knee-jerk reaction to sensationalist headlines. What she did was to consider a series of press reports and the public reaction to those, and then respond in a coherent and timely manner.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Does my noble and learned friend accept that his response in this House last week was exemplary?

[Noble Lords]

Oh!