Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2020

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 6th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, here we are again: post-legislative scrutiny and a hapless Minister, who has worked with prodigious vigour—we all salute him for that—given a frankly indefensible brief. The hallmark of a good law is clarity and simplicity, so that we all understand what it is. Here we have a law that is continually riddled with new anomalies and new inconsistencies. My noble friend Lord Lamont pointed out a number of them with his customary good humour, but it is not really funny, is it? This is touching the lives of people throughout our country, in a cruel way in many cases.

The rule of six was most effectively ridiculed in your Lordships’ House a week ago. Not that it was a directed ridicule, but our new noble friend Lady Morrissey said with quiet pride that she has nine children, seven of whom were still at home. We have got to have a law that can be seen to be fair. We have got to have laws that can be seen to have been properly discussed and debated in the other place, and indeed in your Lordships’ House where there is an accumulation of ministerial and medical knowledge second to none in any chamber in the world. We really must get the horse before the cart, because we are not doing that at the moment. Of course I feel sorry for my noble friend, who I genuinely like and admire, but he is being given an indefensible brief. May we hasten the day when he has one that he can truly defend and that we can all support.

Coronavirus Act 2020: Temporary Provisions

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 28th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, not for the first time, I find myself in entire agreement with the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath.

The autumn is not only the season of mists and mellow fruitfulness, it is the season of braces—of grouse, partridge and pheasant. Here in the house of Clarks we have heard two splendid speeches by the noble Baroness, Lady Clark of Kilwinning, and my noble and learned friend Lord Clarke of Nottingham. I am delighted to be able to welcome him in those terms, in spite of his rather dodgy record on House of Lords reform, referred to by my noble friend Lady Noakes. However, he is now here as a Member and he is very welcome. He will make an immense contribution and I much look forward to following him in many other debates in the months and years to come. May they be proper debates in a proper House of Lords, which is holding the Government to account.

Sixty-one years ago, I enrolled my noble friend Lord Lamont into my branch of the Young Conservatives. His father paid the half-crown fee. At the time, I was teaching a course in history at a school in Grimsby on the age of the enlightened despot. I never thought that 61 years later, I would be bemoaning the fact that we have a muddled despotism in our own country. That is serious and deeply regrettable. We all understand why there was a degree of emergency/panic reaction in March of this year. It was probably a little too late and some of us had called for airport checks earlier, but I understood. But six months have passed and we are now debating statutory instrument after statutory instrument that has sometimes been overtaken before we do so. The instrument has been obsolete before we could debate it. This is no way to run a parliamentary system.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, was entirely right when he talked about six months. He was also right when he referred to his own pet hate—namely, Henry VIII clauses. We have a Government who at the moment are governing almost exclusively over the most desperate area of our national life through Henry VIII clauses. Also, as the noble Earl, Lord Erroll, reminded us, for good measure, they might possibly emulate Cromwell by seeking to abolish Christmas. This is no way to govern in a parliamentary democracy. It is essential that my noble friend, to whom I also pay tribute, takes back to his colleagues in government, especially in the Cabinet, that this is something up with which we should not put.

I do not agree with every word that my noble friend Lord Robathan said in his speech, but I shall certainly vote if he puts his Motion to the House. I shall do so because the Government need a sharp, salutary lesson. We also have to consider what else Parliament can do with two Houses. I recommended, during our long and protracted debates on Brexit, that there should be a joint Select Committee of both Houses. If there was ever a real need for such a body, it is now, because it could do a great deal of sifting, advising, pre-legislative scrutiny and so on. We are in a bad position at the moment, so it is up to us to persuade the Government that they have to improve their act.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2020

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Friday 18th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I entirely agree with the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, but I want to concentrate my remarks on this very unsatisfactory way of dealing with these great issues. We have heard this morning that it really is essential that the Minister presenting this should be at the Dispatch Box, so that everybody can see and hear him or her. But this is not a debate—it is a series of short statements that cannot be challenged. There can be no opportunity to question the Minister. The whole thing is unsatisfactory. We are suffering from government by fiat. We have to get this right.

This is the gravest crisis to grip our country since the Second World War. It is going on and on, and we need to have a proper debate on the role of government and what should be done to try to get away from this retrospective legislation, which is already out of date by the time we debate it. This will not do. I ask that we have a full day of debate, as soon as possible, on the pandemic, and I would like to follow it by another full day’s debate on the malign influence of Mr Dominic Cummings and special advisers. Ministers are accountable, but special advisers have been elected by no one to anything and are not accountable to anybody. They should not have such a great influence on the Government of our country.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) Regulations 2020

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Friday 24th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, if we were in a proper Chamber, as we should be, I would be shouting “Hear, hear!” as the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, sat down. A series of one-minute statements is not parliamentary scrutiny, and we have to hammer that home through my diligent noble friend, for whom I have great admiration. He must tell his political masters that this is not acceptable. Retrospective endorsement of government fiat is inimical to parliamentary democracy, and of course it adds to the muddle, to which many of your Lordships have referred during this debate.

I end with one specific question about the muddle over masks. This morning there was much on the radio about those who are exempt from wearing them. Can we not have a system where they have to carry a card or wear a badge so that shopkeepers are not embarrassed and nor are they?

Contact Tracing: Personal Privacy

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 11th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell [V]]

My Lords, the data that an individual puts on the app is entirely voluntary. No data is held for more than 28 days until somebody takes a test. Once that test has taken place, the individual has the opportunity to upload further data. That data is held for clinical trials and to help us understand the epidemic. There is the opportunity for us to delete all that data at the end of the epidemic, and that assessment will be made at the right time.

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, like many, I pay tribute to my noble friend for his indefatigable hard work over these past weeks, but does he accept that, following the events of three weeks ago, there has been an erosion of public trust and confidence? It has been seen on the beaches and in demonstrations. Further, does he accept that it is absolutely essential that these tests are conducted in such a way that there is total public confidence in their probity? Can he give me an assurance that everything possible will be done to ensure that no vital personal information is misused in any way?

Covid-19: Testing

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 14th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

Testing in care homes is absolutely a number one priority. We have massively ramped up testing: we are now running it at 30,000 tests a day. We will test 300,000 care home residents and 500,000 care home staff before mid-June. That will make a massive difference, but we will not stop there. The ongoing and regular testing of both residents and staff will be a core part of our test and trace programme.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, with the encouraging announcement of the ending of virtual proceedings in the other place and in the hope that we will not be too far behind, can my noble friend assure me that adequate, permanent testing facilities will be available for all who work in the Palace of Westminster and all Members of both Houses?

[Lord Bethell]

My Lords, workplace testing for not just Peers but all workers is an important part of our return-to-work strategy. We need to work with employers of all kinds and the diagnostics industry to put in solutions so that people can go back to work with confidence that they are not infectious and that the person sitting next to them is not infected.

Covid-19 Update

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 16th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Will my noble friend say a word or two about the Bill that is going to come before both Houses of Parliament? Is he effectively saying that those of us who happen to be in our 70s or 80s will not be allowed to take part in that debate, or is this merely advice? Could he also tell me whether there are testing facilities within the Palace of Westminster?

[Lord Bethell]

The Bill will arrive on Thursday and the plan will be published then. In terms of those who wish to attend the House, all I can do is share the advice of the CMO, which is very simple and very clear, but it is down to the choices and decisions of those here as to how they wish to conduct their travel and attendance arrangements.

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[Lord Bethell]

My noble friend will be reassured to know that guidance for education settings was published a couple of hours ago. This includes advice to universities both on travel and on what to do when someone develops the symptoms of coronavirus. I would be glad to place a copy of this in the Library or send it to any noble Lords who would like to see it.

[Lord Cormack]

My noble friend did not answer the question about the testing facility within the Palace of Westminster.

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord is entirely right. To be honest, I do not know the answer to that question, but I would be glad to find it out and write to him with the details.

Healthcare (International Arrangements) Bill

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 19th February 2019 Lords Chamber

Amendment 44, in the name of my noble friends Lord Patel and Lord Kakkar and my noble and learned friend Lord Judge, is particularly to the point on sunsetting. I suggest with all respect to them that it is no more than a sticking plaster to put over some of these areas of serious concern, but it deserves serious consideration in your Lordships’ House at this stage of the Bill.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I associate myself entirely with the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane. We have been here before. We went through these issues many times last year, when a number of us spoke about constitutional issues. I want to concentrate my remarks there today. Before doing so, I add my welcome to my noble friend on the Front Bench. I am sure that she will have a distinguished career in your Lordships’ House. I was extremely sorry to miss her Second Reading speech but I was recovering from surgery, so I could not be present and take part as I would have otherwise sought to do.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, are members of a group that I have the privilege of chairing: the Campaign for an Effective Second Chamber. I want to reflect on those words for a few moments. You can have a truly effective second Chamber in a Parliament, or indeed an effective first Chamber, only if you do not have an overbearing Executive. Everything that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, have said underlines the fact that we are in extremely dangerous territory.

Of course, as they have done, I entirely absolve my noble friend on the Front Bench. She has been given a poisoned chalice and she will handle it with dexterity and finesse, but whatever she does, she will not be able to remove the hemlock and replace it with quaffable wine because this really is a very dangerous Bill. The name of Henry VIII has already been quoted a number of times—and even Henry XVI, although I am not quite sure what he will be up to. But I prefer to call this Bill a carte blanche Bill because what we are being asked to do is to give the Executive a totally blank cheque. That is inimical to constitutional parliamentary democracy. There has been a great deal of talk recently, and there will be more next week, about the role of Parliament vis-à-vis the Executive. We have to have a proper balance, but we do not have a proper balance if we have an Executive invested with so much power that Parliament really counts for nothing.

Of course, I know why we are going to have to give this Bill a speedy passage, but I deeply regret it. It goes against the parliamentary grain as far as I am concerned. In the almost 49 years that I have been in one House or the other, I have seen what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, referred to as the steady accretion of power to the Executive branch. No lip service to the power of Parliament paid by the setting up of Back-Bench committees and all the rest of it has really disguised that. It is one of the reasons why colleagues in another place have recently been flexing their muscles in seeking to wrest back power from the Executive to Parliament. I will not pursue that argument now because, frankly, in a Committee stage it would be straying out of order. But what I will say to your Lordships is that if we give this Bill its passage, as I suppose we must, it is crucial that we redouble our resolve to ensure that this sort of thing happens less frequently in the future.

In a parliamentary democracy there has to be a true balance of power and a responsibility to scrutinise legislation, but how can you scrutinise legislation which is so open-ended that it gives unbridled power for years to come? The noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, referred to that. I do not want to trespass on the private grief of friends opposite—and I do regard them as friends—but do I really want powers like these to be exercised by Mr McDonnell or Mr Corbyn? No, I do not, and I suspect that there are very few, if any, in your Lordships’ House who do.

I therefore put down a marker in total support of the eloquence of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and say that when we have got over the next few traumatic weeks, if we get over them—I suppose we will—we must send an emphatic message to the Executive that this sort of sharp practice is something up with which we will not put.

[Baroness Andrews (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I welcome the Minister. I will not add to her burdens by trying to find another metaphor for the difficult position she is in. We have had poisoned chalices and hand grenades, but I am sure she would be more than capable of dealing with all that. I am sure she will already have picked up some of the deep frustrations in the Committee about the position we find ourselves in—having to deal with legislation that is, frankly, rather surreal. We are trying to deal with the worst possible scenarios just in time, just in case we should need to be as draconian as necessary in the most extreme emergency situations. We are focusing on the exercise of powers that may never need to be used but which we may have to reach for in the most ghastly circumstances—so we are over a barrel. This is an essential Bill. We have to protect UK citizens from the worst that could happen to them, having sadly neglected to do what we could have done at the very beginning of this two-year process and given them assurances and the sort of security—as we would have been expected to be able to offer EU citizens in this country—that many in this House tried to achieve.

My speech in support of the amendment moved by my noble friend will be much shorter, because I can do hardly anything other than compliment the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, on his most forensic and splendid interpretation of what the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee said, and my colleague on that committee, the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane. The one thing on which I might take issue with him is that in that committee we have not, in fact, become habituated to the ways in which government departments always try to take more power. We are not naive but we deeply resent the ways in which government departments have tried to accumulate powers over the past few years and to sneak it under our noses.

Coming down the track we have Bills—the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, has already referred to them—with swathes of inappropriate delegation cultivated by civil servants and Ministers, for whom, frankly, this is Christmas. They have wanted to acquire these sorts of powers for years and have tried on many different occasions. They have been stopped in Bill after Bill and sent back. But now they have the power of post-Brexit uncertainty to aid them. It is extremely difficult to know where our vocabulary might lead us next. It is a fabulous opportunity, because for years they have chafed against the boring predictability of our scrutiny committees telling them to go away and think again. They come back with excuses about urgency, technicalities and flexibilities, yet when we expose these for what they are, they tend to try to do it again in another form.

One of the most disappointing things is that this was our second report; our first was blunt enough. We thought that between November and now the department and Ministers would respond more sensitively—perhaps more in the spirit of the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill, with our agonised discussions over the fine-tuning of appropriateness and necessity—but we received not a word; not a blink. I am sad to say that what the department came back with—I know the Minister was not responsible—was another 43 paragraphs about all manner of explanations, most of which were not relevant. They did not address the fundamental question that the Committee is raising this afternoon: why are these powers necessary? What is it that only these powers will be able to achieve? The Minister was very flattering to the scrutiny committees at Second Reading; she called our powers “forensic”. There is nothing that needs forensic scrutiny here. You could take a spade to this Bill; it is that blunt.

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[Lord Cormack]

Or a backstop.

[Lord Lansley]

Yes. It might have been part of the backstop agreement in the old days, I do not know.

The second limb of Amendment 8 is to say that although care is free to NHS patients in the United Kingdom, the object of the support is to put people in the same position in other countries as if they were residents of that country. Of course, care is not free in other countries. In a significant number of EU countries—I think about half—some out-of-pocket expenses are required in relation to their healthcare provision, which would not necessarily be reimbursed. We should not expect to pay more than would be the case if somebody were a resident of that country. The expectation should not be that because the NHS is a free service here, there should be a free service everywhere.

Health and Social Care Act 2012

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 5th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

My Lords, since the 2012 Act was passed, there have been some significant improvements in NHS performance, not least in cancer outcomes, for example. There are also around 42,000 more staff since 2010. So improvements have clearly been able to happen within the legal framework set by Parliament in 2012. Nevertheless, we recognise that as the service is required to become more integrated and people across different care functions are required to work together, we need to look at the structure. There is already joint working, for example, between NHS England and NHS Improvement at the regional level. But if the NHS identifies any barriers, we will look at those.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, when we are looking at the structure, which is clearly important, can we also look at priorities within the National Health Service? I heard this morning that certain treatments and unnecessary medicines are to be ruled out. Can we have a comprehensive list of those? It is not right that dandruff shampoo should be on prescription. It is not right that we should be looking at funding the treatment of gaming machine addiction. Can we have a real look at the priorities?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

My noble friend makes a very important point, which is that as we move ahead, even with the funding settlement, it is essential that the NHS becomes more productive. That means looking at whether there are medicines or treatments that are no longer producing the outcomes it was suggested that they would and taking those out of service. It is very important to state that this has to be a clinically led process. We have already begun that with certain low-value prescriptions. NHS England is now leading that process—as I say, it is clinically led—to look at whether there are other treatments that could be discontinued.

Disabled People: Social Care

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 20th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I am glad to be able to publish the response at last, and apologise again for how long it has taken. I am pleased to report that we have not just changed the name of the department but given the strategic direction for social care policy back to it. That also includes strategic direction of funding—but the actual funding settlement happens through the local government funding settlement. I have to disappoint the noble Lord on that because there are no current plans to change it.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, in his Answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell of Surbiton, my noble friend referred to a forthcoming round table that will address some of the issues that provoked the Question. Can my noble friend assure me that the noble Baroness will be invited to participate in that round table?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

My noble friend makes an excellent suggestion. It is not my round table, so the invitation is not mine to extend, but I shall certainly be seeing my colleague the Minister of State this evening and shall do everything that I can to encourage that invitation to come.