Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [HL]

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 17th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Mackay of Clashfern (Con)]

My Lords, the scope for regulation under the provisions that are in issue is very wide. It is an area in which there is, as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, said, a great deal of legislation already. I therefore hope that my noble friend the Minister will be able to indicate some form of restriction that might be acceptable in relation to this particular power. In the debate that we had on Monday, he pointed out that the power would be used only in restoring, in effect, what might be lost as a result of our leaving the European Union and that, in particular, there is power under the European Communities Act 1972 to do a good deal under statutory provision that is not by primary legislation. I thought that, if that were the case, it would be a justification for using this particular method. In this case, however, there does not appear to be justification for anything like that. I therefore invite my noble friend to indicate, as far as he can, what restriction he has in mind and whether that restriction could be embodied in the terms of the legislation.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I had not intended to speak and—I apologise—I have not taken a close interest in this Bill, but I was moved and impressed by what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and my noble friend Lord Hailsham said. The mantra of taking back control means only one thing to me: it is Parliament taking back control. It is not Parliament conferring a blank cheque upon the Executive, from whichever party they are drawn. I am disturbed that this principle appears very much at risk.

In the previous Divisions on this Bill I voted for the Government. I did so because I have not taken a close and continuing interest in the Bill, as I indicated at the beginning, and because I have a real regard for my noble friend Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon, who I have come to know well. I respect him greatly and regard him as a Minister who has proper regard for Parliament and the constraints under which Ministers should operate. I feel for him on this issue but add my appeal to the brief but eloquent appeal of my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern.

Taking up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, I very much hope that my noble friend the Minister will indicate that he truly appreciates the concerns of those who are apprehensive about an accretion of power to the Executive, and that he will, after discussing the matter further with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, come back at Third Reading with something that is acceptable throughout your Lordships’ House.

We are in difficult waters. This is a precursor to a long and I am sure complicated, but I hope not acrimonious, debate on the withdrawal Bill, on which the other place is coming towards the end of its deliberations. However, it is no part of the functions of your Lordships’ House to connive at the accretion of power to the Executive. Certain things should depend upon primary legislation, not the fiat of a Minister. I hope that my greatly respected noble friend Lord Ahmad will give me a response that will not oblige me to refrain from supporting the Government.

[Baroness Bowles of Berkhamsted (LD)]

My Lords, I recognise the great importance of Amendment 71A but wish to speak to some of the other amendments with which it is grouped. As has already been said by my noble friend Lady Kramer, we have had productive discussions and have identified common ground in relation to the concerns about paragraphs (a), (b) and (d) in Amendment 72. I understand that the Minister will make a statement about the House returning to these issues at Third Reading, with assurances and language that enable me to not press Amendment 72. I also understand that the Minister will clarify the effect of the term “without prejudice” at the beginning of Schedule 2, which relates to my Amendment 76A.

Amendment 74, standing in my name and those of my noble friend Lady Kramer and the noble Lord, Lord Collins of Highbury, would introduce a failure to prevent a money laundering facilitation offence. This was elaborated in Committee, so I need only remind noble Lords that the Law Commission has long recognised a need for a change in the law to enable large corporations to be brought to justice where the need to find a directing mind gets in the way of achieving justice. This type of offence has worked not only since it was introduced in the Bribery Act but has recently been legislated for with regard to tax evasion. Money laundering is in a similar category and this offence would enable offending British companies to be successfully prosecuted here instead of us witnessing the United States getting a better grip than us: that is not being a leader on anti-money laundering. It is also proper that such a new offence is brought in by primary legislation. I give notice that at the appropriate moment I will move Amendment 74 and, if need be, divide the House.