Ukraine and Russia

Debate between Lord Coaker and Lord Berkeley of Knighton

Tuesday 15th September 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

The bravery and courage of the Ukrainian people cannot be overstated. They are simply immense. This is a point that I have made before, but I am going to make it again: Russia did not attack Ukraine when it did in the belief that years later it would still be fighting. It believed, as I am sure a former ambassador would say, that three or so days after the attack it was going to be in Kyiv and would install a pro-Russian Government there. It did not attack in the belief that it would be where it is now, with 1.5 million casualties. God knows how much money it has cost. It is to the immense credit of the Ukrainian people that that has remained possible, not only in the face of the initial invasion but in the way in which they have continued to stand firm, as they have done. I agree with my noble friend that we need not only to support them in their war effort but to continue to discuss and work with them on what will happen in the future. However, the immediate priority is to secure the sovereignty of their country.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)]

I would like us just for a moment to concentrate on the incredible loss of human life in this conflict. The Minister mentioned the economic cost to Russia and, indeed, the human cost just now. It is worth remembering that Russia has suffered 1.5 million casualties, compared with about 125,000 to 150,000 on the Ukrainian side. Of course, all are to be lamented. It is worth noting that the cost to Russia has been astonishing. One has to think a little bit, on whichever side these people are, about the awful cost for families and people and the tragedy of all these lives that have been lost.

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

We all deplore the loss of life. We are all human. We reflect on the casualties, the killed and the wounded, and the impact psychologically on many people. We do not always talk about the numbers of casualties in Ukraine but the level of suffering is clear, and all of that is important for us to remember. There is only one person responsible for the invasion of Ukraine and, as far as I can see, that person is responsible for the consequences. We all hope that, as soon as possible, we will get a ceasefire that is acceptable to Ukraine and the slaughter and killing will stop.

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Debate between Lord Coaker and Lord Berkeley of Knighton

Lords Hansard - part two & Committee stage
Wednesday 20th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

My Lords, I am very happy to discuss Amendment 12, moved by the noble Lord, Lord Paddick. It is really interesting and certainly gives us cause to think about the issues he has raised about special constables being members of police forces in England and Wales, as they are in Scotland. It will be interesting to hear the Minister’s response as to why that is not appropriate, or whether the legal difference between England and Wales and Scotland with respect to specials is an important difference and there is some logical reason for it. It is certainly something for this Committee to think about. We are grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, for bringing this amendment forward.

We also very much support the provisions in Clause 3, which allow special constables to join the Police Federation. This is a long overdue change, so the Government are to be congratulated on bringing that forward.

It is really important for us to put on record—given that our proceedings are read by many outside and watched by others—what will be the Committee’s unanimous view of the importance of specials and the work they do. All, or many, of us will have been out with our local police forces on the beat. I have at times been out with the specials. It is important to remember that, when a special turns up at an incident in a uniform, with the full powers of the police constable, the people to whom he or she is going do not ask them whether they are a special or whether, because they are special, they do not somehow put themselves in danger in the same way that a full-time police officer would. They are just grateful that a police officer—a uniform—has turned up to support them.

It is really important for us to state in this Committee debate that we support the specials and value the work that they do across communities up and down the country. It is also worth reiterating the evidence given to the Bill Committee in the Commons by John Apter, who said that special constables

“stand shoulder to shoulder with my colleagues. They have exactly the same powers and they carry exactly the same risks.”

In that short phrase, John Apter has completely summed up our view of the work that they do. Alongside that, Chief Superintendent Paul Griffiths, president of the Police Superintendents’ Association, said that special constables

“epitomise the relationship between the public and the police”.— [ Official Report, Commons, Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill Committee, 18/5/21; col. 26.]

It is important, in this short debate on the amendment, to put that on the record. I know it will be the unanimous view of the Committee, but I am also interested in the noble Baroness’s response—sorry, the Minister is the noble Lord; I will get it right. I have been in the Commons for a long time and it takes a little while to get used to—I am nearly there.

The amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, raises an important issue on which we need some clarification, and I look forward to the Minister’s reply.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)]

My Lords, I want to amplify one point made by both previous speakers. I am sure that the Minister would agree that what we want to do in the police force—all parts of the police force—is to encourage recruitment. The feeling that one has standing encourages that enormously. I would just like to make this point: we want to encourage recruitment, and therefore if police special constables feel that they are part of the police force, they are more likely to join and stay.