Ukraine and Russia

Debate between Lord Coaker and Baroness Manningham-Buller

Tuesday 15th September 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

If you have evidence that something has happened, it is quite right to talk about, for example, drone attacks such as the one in Leipzig to which my noble friend refers. Sometimes, when I am asked questions, I want to go further than I do; I want to use language that is stronger and more powerful. However, I also recognise that, when you are a Government Minister, particularly at a sensitive time, particularly in a difficult situation such as this—this is true in the other place, and it would be true under whatever Government—you have to be extraordinarily careful about the language you use, in case you generate unintended consequences. I feel a real responsibility for that because I am not the person flying the jet, I am not the person on the ship, I am not the person undertaking various activities. My noble friend is absolutely right that, where we have the evidence, we have to say what has happened and explain the threat to the British people, while at the same time being extraordinarily careful with the language that we use in case, as I said, we generate unintended consequences.

[Baroness Manningham-Buller (CB)]

The Minister has referred to cyber attacks, drone probing and issues raised by other Members of the House, but these are just part of the picture. There are also threats to factories doing things for Ukrainians, sabotage of them, murder in the London streets. There have been firebombs on DHL aircraft. What the shadow fleet is doing at sea is equally worrying, and, of course, we have had the threat to our undersea cables; if we lose those, it would be a disaster for us. I am very grateful for what the Minister has said so far, but the scale and range of what the Russians are doing to us is broader than has been so far said in this House, and that is beyond conventional espionage and all the other things they do. Does the Minister agree?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for that question. She is absolutely right. It is a sin of omission not to mention underwater cables and some of the other points that she made. Being able to explain that to the British people is important. Part of the problem, as she will know better than me from the responsibility that she had, is that some of the work the services do, along with others, to protect the country is unreported in many respects but it deals with many of these issues. I am proud of the work the services do and of the bravery and courage they show. We often talk about our Armed Forces, and quite rightly, but day in and day out MI5, MI6 and other intelligence services protect us and the public from harm, both at home and abroad, and we should celebrate what they do as well.